Geodesic pitches diagnostic tool for Linux software; try the demo, not the download Friday February 01, 04:31 AM EST [ GNU/Linux ]
- By Grant Gross -
Michael Spertus says his company's port of its Great Circle software diagnostic tool to Linux could help Open Source developers debug their code and deliver good software to the community faster. Spertus is so sure of Great Circle's usefulness that his company is running a demo for the program debugging the giant Mozilla browser codebase, and new results based on the latest Mozilla code will be released every week.
LinuxWorld Paris: Optimism about Linux growth, but office suite still catching up Thursday January 31, 03:43 PM EST [ GNU/Linux ]
- By Bruce Tober -
Four years ago, Paris held its first Linux Expo and the hype then had Linux equaling or surpassing Windows on the desktop within five years. This year, the predictions have changed just a wee bit and few believe those predictions, but many say they see, at least in Europe, that Linux is gaining significant ground, especially in the business world.
Loki's Draeker: If I had to do it over, I'd create Linux native games
Thursday January 24, 04:24 PM EST [ Games ]
- By Grant Gross -
The news of Loki Entertainment Software's demise came late Wednesday in the form of a leaked memo to resellers. In the memo, company president Scott Draeker explained that the company was shutting down operations January 31, and stopping end-user support for its games immediately, after three years of being the most high-profile Linux gaming company.
Loki continued to release new Linux ports of popular Windows games, even after the bankruptcy filing, shipping Kohan and Postal Plus between late August and mid-October. Loki also ported games such as Tribes 2, Alpha Centauri, Quake III Arena, and SimCity 3000 during its lifetime, but the main criticism of the company was that the Linux ports often appeared many months after the Windows versions.
Draeker responded to questions from NewsForge Thursday in what he says will be the only interview about Loki's closing. We asked him about what went wrong at Loki, his future, and Loki's competition from efforts such as TransGaming Technology's three-month-old effort to use WineX to allow Windows games to run on Linux.
NewsForge: When did you decide it wasn't working? You seemed hopeful after the
bankruptcy filing that things would work out.
Draeker: Based on monthly sales figures when we filed, we had every reason to
believe the reorganization would be successful. What happened is those
sales fell off dramatically over the holidays. With lower-than-expected
revenues we were digging a hole each month.
NewsForge: What do you think went wrong?
Draeker: If we had come into 2001 in better shape, we could have ridden out the slow months and done well going forward.
NewsForge: What happens to the games? Does another company get the rights to distribute your games? Some of NewsForge's people want to know if you'll be selling them off for cheap? :-)
Draeker: We've been working with our resellers to make sure they have adequate supplies of products and anticipate they will continue selling Loki
products. I don't think there will be any huge discounts right
away -- maybe in six months they'll discount whatever is left.
NewsForge: What's next for you personally?
Draeker: My immediate plans are to take a break and recharge my batteries. After that I'll start looking at different opportunities.
NewsForge: What happens to Loki's employees? (There were about 10 before the latest news, Draeker says.) Have they all been laid off?
Draeker: We laid off our development and support staff last Friday. I understand at least one already has an employment offer elsewhere.
NewsForge: How are you feeling about this big change in your life?
Draeker: Relieved! We did everything humanly possible to make this work. It was hard to make the decision to shut down. It was hard to lay people off.
But it was the right thing to do. And I'm relieved that it's over and
that all of us can start focusing on The Next Big Thing.
Loki has been a great experience and the Linux community is great.
Starting Loki will always be one of the proudest moments of my life.
Draeker: We'd like to find someone to continue hosting it.
NewsForge: How do you feel about the future of Linux gaming? Do you think there's enough of a market for a company to port Windows games to Linux?
Draeker: It's problematic. After three years I know it can be done. The market is there. But it's also very challenging. We did it out of conviction, which
is why we lasted as long as we did.
NewsForge: How about original games native to Linux?
Draeker: If I were going to start a new Linux game company tomorrow that's what I would do.
The idea with Loki was never to create a thriving Linux porting business.
We wanted to create a Linux gaming industry. If you want a perfect
example of the difference, just look at Mac gaming. There are many games
available for the Mac put out by several great Mac porting companies. But
no one develops new games for the Mac. As a result Mac gaming is always a
second cousin to Windows gaming. Games come out after the Windows
versions do. They look and feel like Windows games, not Mac games. And
there's nothing you can play on a Mac that you can't also play on Windows.
We saw porting as a transitional stage. By porting games we were able to
develop the software infrastructure needed for gaming on Linux. We were
also able to prove that a market for Linux games exists. The next step
would have been to use what we had created to start making original games
for Linux. That has always been our ultimate goal -- we wanted Linux to
have its own unique, compelling games. Think how many people would be
running Linux on their desktop if Diablo had come out for Linux six months
before Windows!
NewsForge: Or how about the TransGaming model of using WineX?
Draeker: The arrival of TransGaming to me is the clearest indication that Loki
failed to jump-start a Linux gaming industry as we'd hoped, because
TransGaming has nothing to do with Linux games. Their message to game
developers is: "Use DirectX and develop for Windows. We'll help you sell
your Windows products to Linux users."
TransGaming's strategy is the same one Corel used in its Linux
applications business. In the end I don't think they'll be any more
successful than Corel was.
NewsForge: What advice would you give to anyone who wants to start a Linux gaming company?
Draeker: Cut your teeth in the established gaming industry first. If you can
successfully complete a title there then you have a shot at doing it for
Linux.
NewsForge: What happens to the Nokia Media Terminal project (in which Loki games were to be distributed for the Nokia hardware)? Does that move forward without Loki?
Draeker: I don't think this affects the Media Terminal at all. If it did then
Nokia would have bailed us out.
by Anonymous Reader on Thursday January 24, 06:00 PM EST (#4)
Freeverse and Ambrosia both create games first for the Mac and then, only later, for Windows. They aren't huge houses and don't produce a lot of quantity, but the quality is very high.
by Anonymous Reader on Thursday January 24, 06:08 PM EST (#5)
Since most open source fans now-a-days seem to embrace gnutella (and napster, etc) as their "fundamental right to pirate", what happened is that most of us pirated their games. And they went out of business. Is this actually a surprise?
I justified copying their games because "they should have been GNU GPL and free" because "open source means freedom".
Why dont you all ask RMS what his opinion on this is? Oh wait, I think I already know the answer, to make money from your software is "wrong".
This troll speaks the truth, there is a fundamental flaw in the free software mentality.
by WattsM on Thursday January 24, 06:08 PM EST (#6)
(User #4610 Info)
...at risk of nitpicking, there are Macintosh-only games out there.
Any Mac fan will know the name Ambrosia Software. Some of their older games have been released in free cross-platform versions using SDL, but generally their new products are Mac-only. (I think only their new RPG exists in a Windows version also.) And, I also have a fairly nifty OS X only game called "AirBurst." They're out there.
It's an interesting dilemma for people trying to do Linux games, though. Draeker doesn't seem to know about Ambrosia, or maybe he discounts them, but they're largely what Loki should have been. On the other hand, nobody buys Macs just to run Mac-only games--not even Bungie's "Marathon," a hell of a first-person shooter in its day (and Mac-only for quite some time). Running Linux is arguably much less painful than switching hardware platforms, but the game would have be not only really good but really, really visible for people who weren't already "Linux inclined" to go through the trouble of installing a new OS to run it. (Remember, for most people that involves repartitioning their hard drive--the sorts of people who can just open up a new partition painlessly are the sorts of people who aren't put off by Linux to start with.)
On the third hand (?), it's worth noting that both Ambrosia and Bungie in their Mac-centric days outlasted Loki. (Whether or not Bungie's ultimate end of being purchased by Microsoft is a "win" is left as an exercise for the reader.)
by Anonymous Reader on Thursday January 24, 06:26 PM EST (#9)
He mentions making a game in the regular game industry first. I like what VVisions did with terminus. They made an original game using SDL/OpenGL and other cross platform stuff, and released a game for Linux Windows and Mac all in one box. They developed it on Linux but made sure it ran on Windows. The Linux support was there, but it wasn't the only selling point. If a company could get a few games that can stand on their own that way, then the Linux gaming market might have a chance.
Of course, you would also have to fix my crumby Nvidia driver so that the game will run more than 5 minutes without a segfault, lockup, kernel panic, etc., etc., etc. :^> I should have bought an ATI.
by Anonymous Reader on Thursday January 24, 06:37 PM EST (#13)
When Quake 3 came out around Christmas, I really really wanted to buy the linux version, even if I had to mail order it.
The problem?
The linux version was _weeks_ later than both the Mac and Windows versions. To hell with that, I want Quake 3 now, so I bought Quake 3 Win32 and whipped up a minimal Win95 install, and waited for the linux binaries. Think of all the lost revenue due to that blunder. Sychronizing platform releases should have been the single most important thing for game releases, instead, linux users were told to wait...wait..wait while Windows and Mac users gibbed and fragged. That's not how you make consumers happy.
I own almost your entire library, most of them purchased directly from you. The Linux gaming platform is so stable, even compared to Windows XP, and much more secure (you can run as a regular user -- unlike even on XP which requires Administrator privaledges). Thank you for all the technologies you brought out, especially SDL and OpenAL which complemented OpenGL quite nicely.
Thank you for doing your best and lasting as long as you did.
-- Bryan (fka TheBS)
I hate "Microsoft Bigots" almost as much as the "Anything-But-Microsoft" ones.
by Anonymous Reader on Thursday January 24, 07:14 PM EST (#22)
I wish you could continue with development. Economic times are hard but if you could have held on a little longer... I'm sure things would have gotten better.
I just hope I can get my copies of your software releases before they're gone!
Loki did prove that Linux is a platform that can be used for games and that you were up to the task of making it happen. I'm sure the story of Loki and it's people will not end here.
Codifex Maximus as AC.
by Anonymous Reader on Thursday January 24, 07:21 PM EST (#23)
Well, the challenges must have been formidable. From my vantage, most of their games (the 3D ones) depended upon the average Linux user having OpenGL set up--a very daunting task indeed.
Firstly, there were two seperate OpenGL projects: the DRI project and the UTAH-GLX project (which John Carmack was contributing to). The best supported card for both was at least 3-years-old: 3DFX cards. Anything else was well into the 'experimental' realm.
While UTAH-GLX tended to work well, DRI did not. When I switched from XFree 3.X to 4.X, my 3D gaming days on linux came to a screeching halt. DRI still doesn't work well for me (G400 dual-head), in fact, even with the latest XFree86 and kernel...and keep in mind that the G400 is several years old now as well.
Couple that with the fact that setting up UTAH and DRI is not trivial (both involve kernel patching, modules, and XFree rebuilds), the average Linux gamer has one heck of a challenge ahead of them JUST TO PLAY ONE GAME.
There were other issues, but for me this was one of the big ones.
That said, I'm really saddened by this. I'll miss Loki, and their faith in the Linux community. They've contributed a lot back, too...libSDL, openAL and lots else. They dared to stand up to a daunting challenge where no one else would go!
by Anonymous Reader on Thursday January 24, 07:21 PM EST (#25)
Is Loki going to sell their rights to the games to other linux games companies?
Or will the original developers of create patches?
As it stands, why would anyone buy Loki's stock if no patches will be forthcoming?
I am most interested in future patches for Kohan. Someone please tell me that I can get patches for this game in the future.
by Anonymous Reader on Thursday January 24, 07:57 PM EST (#32)
3D on Linux is easy if you use SuSE. They provide the latest XFree86 with their distros and let you download builds for the older versions (7.2, 7.1, 7.0, etc). They have a marvelous Xbased XFree config program called SAX2 which will even install the NVidia closed source drivers (I use them and I love them).
RedHat sucks at 3D because they only target the server market. Get a real distro like SuSE and this sh*t is a breeze. BTW- good luck using MPlayer on RedHat...hahaha
BFN
by Anonymous Reader on Thursday January 24, 10:40 PM EST (#46)
The real reason is just staring him in the face and yet
he chooses to dodge it at every step: Linux is dying.
It is playing catchup trying to reinvent the wheel---things
which have been in OSes like Windows and BSD, the
true successor of UNIX. The last LinuxWorld was a bust.
All the Linux companies are going belly up. BSD is taking
over in the server market. Linux is dying at last.
by Anonymous Reader on Thursday January 24, 11:30 PM EST (#55)
You did a good job and have every right to be proud of what you did. Everybody is talking about the money being in Windows. Funny thing is, I can count a whole truck load of bankrupt Windows gaming companies that I know of. And you know what? Loki lasted longer than most of them.
It's a tough business in which you live or die by your games.
by Anonymous Reader on Thursday January 24, 11:47 PM EST (#60)
Just wondering, with the news of Loki going down, will this affect the further development of the SDL libraries? I am a Solaris UltraSparc user, and had my hopes that Loki would some day release some of its games for THe UltraSparc platform...! *sigh*...
Good luck to the people behind Loki, and hopefully once the economy picks-up, then we'll see more game developers for unix/linux...! =)
Cheers!
G.L.http://come.to/georgie
by Anonymous Reader on Friday January 25, 01:01 AM EST (#69)
I wonder if Draeker had it to do over again if he would still not pay his employees, lie to his suppliers, mover over $100K to his personal accounts, and sacrafice his integrity. If he has done anything good for the Linux commnunity, it was certainly on the backs of good people he screwed in the process.
by Anonymous Reader on Friday January 25, 03:53 AM EST (#77)
The next killer app (as in game) on Linux is a game that's both better than Max Payne and Ultima series together, CLOSED SOURCE!!! (I actually would prefer GPL/OSS but in case of making Linux more mainstream this is the only option), and FREE of cost!! (I would support commercial games, but this only for people to get to know Linux as a gaming platform and to quickly gather the revenue)...
So my idea is simply: Design a game everyone would want to play, make sure it was closed so noone could port it to Windows, and offer it for free to gather market strength around Linux.
by Anonymous Reader on Friday January 25, 04:51 AM EST (#79)
I would more than happily have purchased 3-5 games every 2 years... if not more...
If Loki could have ported Sims, they could have kept porting the expansion packs, and could have had a serious business, with one of the most popular games around.
I think another hot title is Counter Strike, this truely would be a very beneficial title to have on our side...
We love you Loki, but understand why you have to leave us...
Those of us who truely want to help out Loki's vision need to contribute to Open Source games... As well as incourage comercial game...
This is a sad day...
Yes. I think this makes for an important lesson. Making something for both Windows and Linux doesn't increase the appeal of Linux as compared to Windows. Making something great for Linux that is not for Windows, certainly would.
I hope these developers keep coding for Linux.
What do you say? Just one last game that's for Linux and Linux only? One last solute? You have the talent and it would definitely sell.
by Anonymous Reader on Friday January 25, 05:13 AM EST (#82)
Im sorry to see such a excellent company fall under, the games that they ported supplied me with many hours of enjoyment. My best wishes go to all the Loki staff in finding a new place, hopefully in the gaming world.
by Anonymous Reader on Friday January 25, 06:02 AM EST (#83)
Hi all,
It is very sad that Loki died; but Loki has done SDL; and SDL is the base for so many project sthat Loki existance is clearly a success from a humanity point of view. And this is important ! All people at Loki can be happy because they did GOOD things for the world and I thank them for this. I hope that this thought can give them a little warm in sad moments.
Now a more happy news. Linux games is not dead. With some friends we have written a free software RTS/ressource managment game using SDL. Project page is at : Globulation 2 savannah page
and homepage is at :
Globulation 2 quick and dirty home page
It is actually pre-beta because there is bad graphic, very bad GUI and no documentation; but you can play network games. So if anyone wanna test it let's do it I'll answer any question :-)
Our actual problem is to find graphists to transform it into a real game.
Stephane
by Anonymous Reader on Friday January 25, 10:24 AM EST (#88)
No, I can't prove it, and it's obviously just my opinion, but I don't think gaming is a viable business on the Linux platform and Loki was "doomed" from the beginning.
Gaming has driven Windows and PC development since the 386 was introduced. Linux and the various free BSDs have broadest appeal to that segment of the market that wants an OS that is not only free (both as in "beer" and as in "speech") but that is also less influenced by this consumer oriented market.
How successful would a company be if they developed games for the Solaris market? Not very. The desktop market where Linux is already beginning to make a small, but detectable, inroad has nothing to do with gaming.
If someday Linux becomes the dominant force on the consumer/home desktop, then gaming on Linux might become important. But if this ever happens, it will be because Linux first conquered the Enterprise/B & I/government desktop.
by Anonymous Reader on Friday January 25, 12:16 PM EST (#91)
Even though I don't play games much anymore I still bought two of their titles hoping they would make it. I really believed in what they were doing. I hope someone else picks up the ball Linux needs games if it is to be competitive on the desktop.
by Anonymous Reader on Friday January 25, 02:02 PM EST (#95)
Get together a group of talented programmers to make three games: a RPG, FPS, and RTS that all run exclusively on Linux. Market the trio by selling them to distros to box with gaming editions. Keep it GPL so that further development and player mods could be made, like mission packs, expansions, etc. If the project grows, a publisher may take notice.
by Anonymous Reader on Friday January 25, 03:06 PM EST (#97)
iD should allow companies to license their latest engine for free, provided that the resultant game is released on Linux only.
This means that companies can begin to crank out great Linux-only games based on the latest iD engine.
As you can see, iD would not profit from this venture, other than having the satisfaction of fostering a true Linux [Only] Gaming scene.
Since Carmack is a Linux fan, he might just go for it, and convince the other two owners of iD to sign off on such a licensing deal.
by Anonymous Reader on Friday January 25, 03:41 PM EST (#99)
I frequently e-mail and even call software companies just to ask them if they are going to produce Linux versions. I let them know what I want and I keep hoping others will join me in this. Other than that Linux only games is something that would lead to great amount of forward movement in the whole 3D software effort. :)
by Anonymous Reader on Friday January 25, 07:24 PM EST (#107)
While Loki helped give cross platform games a boost by porting WIndows games to Linux, others are pushing forward with cross platform libraries so that games can be made to work on multiple platforms without porting. That is where the real money is. SDL, HawkNL, HawkVoice, and OpenGL already provide cross platform support for graphics, network, and voice compression for Windows/Linux/Mac and others.
Microsoft cannot stop cross platform games!!!!!
by Anonymous Reader on Sunday January 27, 05:46 AM EST (#118)
I've been trying to use linux as my main OS for about 2 years now. The missing libraries and incompatibilities out of the box for some cool X games and apps keeps me with windows for games and office apps. Anyway, the unix printing system sucks!
I've been trying to work with a Jetdirect 300X and *any* window manager (Gnome, KDE, and Enlightenment) to produce a document.
From Gnome to KDE and Abiword to StarOffice The printing between two wordprocessors and window managers is not the same. On a HP4L printer, none of the lpt or CUPS drivers work like they should. The text is off the top of the page, or one or two paragraphs don't show up. Plus the text looks inkjet quality in Mandrake 8.1. The text may be 'squashed' together with KOffice or the spacing is too wide with Star/Open Office.
I haven't been able to use any Wordprocessor in Linux to my satisfaction. Yes I am a loser. I can't figure it out. Yes, I use windows. I am one of the sheeple. I have to type research papers for school, and windows 'just works' every time.
I'd like (love) to use Linux everywhere, but it is so unreliable for the 'set up right the first time' users (me), I don't have the patience to get it to work.
If I have to print out 6 or so pages to set the position of the text, that is not a very good word processor.
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