After
an introduction from Cavett, Bowie sang 1984 and Young
Americans, many critics picking up the reference to Nixon.The
conversation that ensued between Bowie and Dick Cavett was covered
with some wonder by the press, Bowie being more evasive than ever.
Cavett,
sans tie for an interview with a difference, didn't help proceedings
by continuing the interview on a simplistic level and not pursuing
areas that may have drawn Bowie out.Just
before he went on camera, Bowie reached for a cane that he had used
once or twice in concert.
His
obsessive fiddling with the cane and loud sniffing sounds (Bowie
was a cocaine addict of magnitude at the time) during the interview,
showed that Bowie was far from comfortable in the situation. For
the main part the conversation mostly flowed around Cavett and the
commercial breaks but Bowie finished up the show with a cover version
of Footstompin', the blueprint sound for Fame.
Note:
Young Americans appears on Best Of Bowie DVD (2003)
and Footstompin' on RarestOneBowie CD
THE
INTERVIEW
Dick
Cavett: We have a very vocal group here tonight, not only you, but
the people out there. It's strange to see you off your feet like
this...welcome, nice to see you.
David
Bowie: Thank you.
Cavett:
So...you've got a lot of explaining to do.
Bowie:
Yes.
Cavett:
I feel like interviewing...I wish I could interview you like that
character that Peter Cook does, you know "What's all this prancing
about stagey and trappings and all that"...but you don't have the
trappings that you've had in the past. You're a little bit more
conventional.
Bowie:
Yeah, at this moment.
Cavett:
What happened?
Bowie:
We did the Diamond Dogs tour and took it from New York to Los Angeles
and I felt like that was enough, really. Rather than come back with
the same thing, I wanted to give myself an opportunity just to work
with a band.
Cavett:
So a lot of the glitter is gone that we associate with you and you've
got an entirely new persona now. Is the offstage Bowie likely to
surprise people? I've had the wierdest reactions from people who
know that you're gonna be on. Some said that they'd be scared to
sit and talk to you, some people said that you would bite my neck,
a very peculiar kind of thing.
Bowie:
It's what you want really...what do you think I'm like?
Cavett:
Well, I've only met you over the phone and a little bit backstage
and to me you seem like a...I hope this doesn't insult you...a vainy
actor.
Bowie:
(laughs) That's right, that's very good.
Cavett:
To me...what are you drawing? (Cavett comments on Bowie's nervous
cane movements) ...some people said "I don't know if I'd want to
meet him, he would make me very nervous. I have a feeling he's into
black magic and that sort of thing" and other people see you as
just a very skillful performer, who changes from time to time from
one thing to another.
Bowie:
Yeah...well, both of that is...(laughs)...I'm a person of diverse
interests, but not really very academic. I glit from one thing to
another, a lot.
Cavett:
Glit?
Bowie:
It's like flit, but it's the Seventies version.
Cavett:
One letter later in the alphabet...this incredible picture (Cavett
shows the album cover of "Diamond Dogs") it's very striking the
first time you see it. The first time this album appeared in a record
store window, I could see it actually stopping traffic on the sidewalk.
This is a picture that you sent to the draftboard obviously. How
did that come about, that whole idea and that very painting?
Bowie:
Um...let me see...well, it's an artist from Belgium called Guy Peellaert,
who did a book called "Rock Dreams"...that I nicked, well, I didn't
nick the book, but I saw the book at Mick Jagger's house and I nicked
the idea of doing a cover.
Cavett:
What does nick mean?
Bowie:
Oh...stole.
Cavett:
Stole the idea...does this make you nervous, to sit without your
band and sit and chat a little bit?
Bowie:
Um...Oh, let's carry on talking. Don't ask me that. Otherwise I'll
wonder, you see. I'd rather not know if I'm nervous until...
Cavett:
...okay, I won't worry about that. Where's the kick for you David
in performance when you're onstage?
Bowie:
That's it, complete, really.
Cavett:
Being there?
Bowie:
Yeah.
Cavett:
The entrance and...I can imagine that it would be a very exciting
profession. I mean, to stand there with that...there are people
in the world who's never stood on stage...I mean to stand on a gigantic
stage like that, with a band behind you...the rehearsal today I
stood in for you...you know what I mean. The feeling of standing
there with that sound comming behind you, is very exhilarating.
Bowie:
An incredible feeling and I got a lot of fulfillment from working
in productions like Diamond Dogs or the Ziggy Stardust. But it was
one of putting together lots of bits and pieces, and loose ends,
and directing the whole thing and remembering a thousand things
at once. So that was one kind of fulfillment. But now that I'm working
with just a band and singing, which is something I haven't done
for years, just stand and sing my songs. I'm finding a new kind
of fulfillment. I'll go back into doing productions in...
Cavett:
You will?
Bowie:
Oh, yeah...I just wanted to go out and sing my songs as a singer
and songwriter for a bit.
(Commercial
break)
Cavett:
David, what kind of student were you in school?
Bowie:
As I've said, not very academic, I suppose I was considered arty.
Cavett:
Arty?
Bowie:
Yeah.
Cavett:
Did you go through college or to college?
Bowie:
Yeah, I went to a technical college near London and had an art course
for people from twelve upwards who couldn't do anything else much
like maths or physics or something, so I took art.
Cavett:
You know that Jagger studied economics?
Bowie:
Yes.
Cavett:
And I mentioned that once when he was on and some of his fans were
dissapointed to hear that. He was at the London School Of Economics
and it ties into an interview he did with Willian Burroughs, which
I thought was interesting if it's in fact, true...
Bowie:
Oh, don't believe it! (laughs)
Cavett:
Everything ties in with something else, you said. Which is..."Don't
ask me any questions because I'll say something different everytime".
But taking a chance here, taking a stab in the light...you said
that there were lives of the rockstars who are really not as strange
as the lives of their fans. It's an interesting point that the fans
sort of envy the stars, but in effect the stars would conventionalise
and envy the fans. It strikes me as odd the idea, you know, that
fans are out showing...I don't know, nutmake under their queuedicles
or something and trying to be really freaky, and you and Jagger
sitting around discussing economics before the Anschluss and Benelux
nations or something...am I exaggerating?
Bowie:
No, he speaks economics and I don't understand him. (laughs)
Cavett:
But is this in fact true that the...what is your private life like?
Bowie:
Do you mind if I take this off? (David takes off his coat)
Cavett:
No, please do.
Bowie:
Allright...what I meant is that when I first started, I could get
out and about a bit and I used to go to clubs and dance. You know,
that was quite easy and I sorted out what I wanted to wear and what
I wanted to do. But later on when things became slightly cocooned...
Cavett:
Slightly what?
Bowie:
Cocooned. I was kind of, you know, in there somewhere. I found that
I was seeing what everybody else was wearing when they used to come
to the shows. And I thought... there kind of out a little bit, so
it ends up that I kind of get influenced by people that come to
see me. I mean...I saw a person with a cane once...of course. Then
someone started bringing them to the gigs and I really like them,
so I started using one. So it wasn't me, it was them.
Cavett:
You've been influenced by your audience in your style...
Bowie:
Yeah, I think you are a lot.
Cavett:
How do you dream up your latest manifestation? You know what I mean?
Do you...
Bowie:
Which one in particularly?
Cavett:
In any case. Do you sit with a sketchpad? Do you work from your
own dreams? Do you have visions?
Bowie:
No, I'm in a lucky position of not wanting to fly. So I take a ship
or train, or something.
Cavett:
You won't fly?
Bowie:
No.
Cavett:
I read that you'd take the Trans-Siberian railway somewhere. That's
a long way.
Bowie:
Yeah, it was right through Russia. From the Okhotska through to
Moscow and from Moscow - Warsaw - East-Berlin...../.?./.....
Cavett:
Why won't you fly?
Bowie:
Ah...it scares me...you know.
Cavett:
Afraid that the plane will come down where it isn't supposed to?
Bowie:
I don't like the feeling of going up. It always feels like something
running very fast and then going to the edge of a cliff and then
jumping and over it and getting to the other side.
Cavett:
I like that though.
Bowie:
Well, it should be like if it just goes up...(imitates a helicopter
with his hand)... like this.
Cavett:
Why do rockstars tend to have premonitions of doom? It seems to
be a theme in their work and their lives.
Bowie:
Ah...cause they're pretty nutty to be doing it in the first place.
You know ...very tangled minds. Very messed up people.
Cavett:
Do you ever try to picture yourself at sixty?
Bowie:
Oh, no! (laughs)
Cavett:
Scares me the idea of a reunion of the Beatles in their seventies,
when they come tattering out on stage. Someone holds a guitar up
in front of them while they pluck it...what... this is a rather
personal question. Is that your real haircolour?
Bowie:
Of course it isn't. I've never said it. No, I'm a blonde.
Cavett:
When you walk around New York and hardheads say: "Hey sweetheart"...
Bowie:
...I drive around New York. (laughs)
Cavett:
Good idea...(laughs)...What do your parents do for a living?
Bowie:
Well, my father's dead and my mother has a small flat and I think
she's got a day job.
Cavett:
Does she have trouble explaining you to the neighbours, who say:"Are
you any relation to that...
Bowie:
...Ah...I think she pretends I'm not hers...(laughs)...No she's...she
doesn't talk much, you know...she doesn't...um...I don't think we
really...we were never that close particularly. We have an understanding.
Cavett:
Is that true that your real name is.../.?./...?
Bowie:
Yeah! (laughs)
Cavett:
Is it really? You didn't want that revealed?
Bowie:
I was waiting for you to reveal it.
Cavett:
Oh, I'm sorry if you didn't want that out. But...what is Black-noise?
Bowie:
Black-noise?
Cavett:
Yeah.
Bowie:
Black-noise is something that Burroughs got very interested in.
It's a...one facet of Black-noise is that...um...everything, like
a glass if an opera singer hits a particular note, the vibrations
of that hit the metabolism of the glass and cracks it, yeah? So
a Black-noise is the register within which you can crack a city
or people or...it's a new control bomb. It's a noise bomb
in fact, which can destroy...why do you ask that?
Cavett:
I mean is it a real thing? Is it something...
Bowie:
...Oh yeah it is. It was invented in France.
Cavett:
Could a tiro use this to...
Bowie:
...well, up until last year you could buy the patent for it in the
French patent-office for about 3-4 dollars.
Cavett:
And it would wipe out a...
Bowie:
...It depends how much money you put into it. I mean a small one
could probably kill about half the people here. But a big one could
...destroy a city. Or even more...I mean...
Cavett:
It's a wierd idea, isn't it?
Bowie:
Well, it's not my idea...(laughs)...so...
Cavett:
Let's not give the instructions on how to do it. Can you recommend
a good book to your fans?
Bowie:
A book this week? Apart from yours?
Cavett:
Oh, do I have a book out?
Bowie:
Yeah...(laughs)..oh no, who's into that.
Cavett:
I wondered if you...last thing I read you said that Kerouac was
important to you. But that's a long time back.
Bowie:
I didn't say I was reading Machiavelli though. (laughs)
Cavett:
You're reading Machiavelli?
Bowie:
No!
Cavett:
What would we find on your coffee-table, in your apartment in...
Bowie:
Um...at the moment mainly pictures. I bought Diane Arbus' book of
photographs. A photographer that I like very much.
Cavett:
Can I ever do a walk-on in your show. I've got to know what it feels
like to stand on stage in a big production thing like that.
Bowie:
In a production? Well, if I had a part for you, yeah.
Cavett:
Yeah...(laughs)...Mabye if I would bring out a cup of tea and a
good book. (laughs)
Bowie:
If it's your book. (laughs)
Cavett:
Oh, I forgot about that. You do mime...
Bowie:
...go ahead and ask me about my book.
Cavett:
You have a book?
Bowie:
Well, funnily enough...(laughs)...
Cavett:
A book comming?
Bowie:
Yes. I'm writing...
Cavett:
You are?
Bowie:
Yeah, based on the Trans-Siberian Express.
Cavett:
Oh, really?
Bowie:
Uh-hum (nodding). Now you can ask me the next one.
Cavett:
I'm glad to know that. How do you say your wifes name? I've seen
it printed Angels and Angela. Which is the type-O?
Bowie:
Um...Angela...Angie.
Cavett:
Her real name is Angela?
Bowie:
Mmm...it's Angela.
Cavett:
Is she a model?
Bowie:
Is she what?
Cavett:
Is she a model or an actress or...I saw a really attractive picture
of her.
Bowie:
No, she was an intellectual that went to school in Switzerland and...has
a vast capacity for knowledge and runs around does thesis on everything.
Cavett:
Yeah...and how do you say your sons name?
Bowie:
Zowie.
Cavett:
Your son's name is Zowie Bowie?
Bowie:
Yeah.
Cavett:
Is it true that Frank Zappa has a child named Moon Unit?
Bowie:
Yes.
Cavett:
Can you imagine growing up. Kids in a tough neighbourhood: "Hey
Moon Unit!". We will take a quick break but we will be right back.
(Commercial
break)
Cavett:
You know somewhere someone is writing a learned paper in a university
called something like...Jagger and Bowie prophets of a pluralistic
society...
Bowie:
(makes snoring sounds)
Cavett:
...prophets of doom. Do you read this stuff? You see critics write
very elaborate intellectual analysis of your work and other people.
Does this put you to sleep?
Bowie:
Um...the bad ones. I always read the good ones.
Cavett:
Yeah (laughs). Do you want to be understood? You know what I mean...like
Ziggy Stardust was...
Bowie:
There's absolutely nothing to understand. I mean...
Cavett:
...with concern with feminine in the world and so on and prophecies
of the world running out of food...
Bowie:
Oh dear. I'm a storyteller and I'm a storywriter and I decided that
I preferred to enact a lot of the material I was writing, rather
than perform it as myself. At this moment I am performing as myself
but I will continue in the future, after I've done what I wish to
do at the moment, return back to writing stories and I will enact
them again and I don't care what anybody says. I like doing it and
it's what I shall continue to do.
Cavett:
Oh, I'm not stopping you.
Bowie:
No, I just...you know, it's not...nothing that I do is...is on any
kind of intellectual slant...
Cavett:
You got no mission?
Bowie:
No, it's just...oh...
Cavett:
Can you do anything about the ripping London apart. I've been there
about seven times. We talked about this the other night...you told
me the appalling news that they've torn down Whistler's House, the
artist. I can't believe what they're doing...you have a lot of influence...
Bowie:
..not since I bought it.(laughs)
Cavett:
I was gonna say you have influence and money. Can't you...
Bowie:
No, you can't do...no one has any influence. I mean everything has
been sectioned off into separate pieces of property and no doubt
now that the socialist governement has nationalised or is going
to nationalise ground, more of it will come down and...
Cavett:
What do you think of...
Bowie:
...I don't know. I haven't made any decision on it. Cause I know
a lot of families that need houses. As much as I like the architecture...you
know. I don't know...I can't general...oh don't ask me about politics
and...I mean, what do I know?
Cavett:
Did I say politics?
Bowie:
But that's what it will become you see, because I mean it's...it's
all politics... motivation of finance, it's politics isn't it?
Cavett:
Okay, you're gonna do another number...however, if you do it now
it will be interrupted by a commercial which will be appalling.
So, why don't we take a short break? We will be right back and thank
you for coming here.
Bowie:
It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
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