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Tawmis
Peter The Ranger (Admin) +
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 3999
Location: In The Dragon Cave.
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 Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:33 am Post subject: Episode 21: Accumulation - COMMENTS. |
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Share your comments here about Episode 21 - the good, the bad, the ugly.
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Nameless
Neverending Nerd*
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 1375
Location: Bravely adventuring beyond the fourth wall.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: |
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My comments thus far:
 
(Me seeing news)
...
(reading)
(Me after reading news)
...
(A pause for thought)
 
(realisation I'll have to wait a couple of hours before I can download it at home)
*will totally download this and comment ASAP*
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sotc
I love Adam (and I sponsored!)
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 275
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:20 am Post subject: |
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Yay!
I will watch this as soon as I can. Probably has to wait until tomorrow, but still, very glad you put 'er up.
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Draxxar
Red Dragon Inn Regular
Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 86
Location: Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:47 am Post subject: |
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I don't know if I want to spoil it for everyone else who hasn't seen it yet but those other heroes in gold and blue armor... wow. Cool armor! Now I have to go into my NWN editor and see how to make that armor combo. Or did you guys use a special HAK file for that? I'm surprised I didn't notice this earlier but I guess in the older episode where these guys were shown maybe it was too quick a camera shot but wow... neat armor.
Darn... but yet another cliff hanger. At least the dragon didn't open up the conversation with a riddle. Like as soon as they barged in the dragon would immideatly ask,"what is the square root of 47?" and if they said anything at all and it was wrong, like even "pardon?" then they'd be toasted on the spot. Those are the worst kind of dragons. Darn foul beasts and their words of torment.
Great episode!
One thing though, and I don't know if anyone pointed it out or not but some of that ambient (?) wind and background "zone" noise seems to make it a little hard sometimes to hear the full conversations. Of course my hearing isn't top notch thanks to having worked around jet engines and... um... loud boom boxes. Good audio though regardless. Just I guess maybe it's not easy blending in background noise with dialogue and not sacrafice one or the other too much. It's good is what I'm saying - but there are parts... like when the goblins speak, where I'll take the video speed in windows media player and cut the speed in half to slow down the audio so I can hear the fast talking gobbies. Of course I saw that you mentioned already there were audio problems, so I can understand, especially if people were on different mics on different computers (like my mic is really really bad for example). Not bad though. The voices were understandable. I think it's mainly the background noise (i.e. wind or tavern chatter) that's seeping through - or was that to mask out background noise you found in the voice acting clips? /shrug. Anyway great work on this regardless.
Over all though I love this stuff. Great work on this, and can't wait for the next season to begin.... which brings up the next obvious question. When does the next season begin? 
- edited - found the armor combo I think: adamentine armor with the helmet being a greater mask of persuasion. Oh yeah, and playing the video at half speed in windows media player all the way through makes them sound really, really, really funny! Like Peter sounds really drunk at half speed on the audio. Like play it from after the goblin part where they're at the bar and then go running up the steps to the cave. Play it at half speed there. It's a riot! Of course it's funny at normal speed as well. I just like messing with the playback speed sometimes. |
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Nameless
Neverending Nerd*
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
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Location: Bravely adventuring beyond the fourth wall.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Draxxar wrote: | | At least the dragon didn't open up the conversation with a riddle. Like as soon as they barged in the dragon would immideatly ask,"what is the square root of 47?" and if they said anything at all and it was wrong, like even "pardon?" then they'd be toasted on the spot. Those are the worst kind of dragons. Darn foul beasts and their words of torment. |
Actually, it would have been kind of cool if the dragon had opened up the conversation with some kind of a cryptic remark or riddle, that subtly forshadowed some kind of forthcoming plot twist, especially since the fans would have until the next season to try and puzzle it out. Something like...
"So, the Unkown has come at last, knowing not what he seeks but how he seeks it."
But less obvious.
Oh, and it's 6.8556546004. Gees. 
| Draxxar wrote: | | Play it at half speed there. It's a riot! |
Heh, I've done that before. I found it hilarious to listen to the goblins on fast forward as well.
Now, for my comments on the episode:
I'm going to be completely honest and say that ep21 was a complete and utter let-down. I was going to go into a huge rant about why, but it's 9:40pm here and I'm tired.
Anyway, the main problem was that this episode was nothing like a season final at all. The final of a season (be it machinima, TV series, end of a movie or book, anything) is supposed to be the hight of the drama and suspence. Everything builds up (or, as it were, accumulates) to that point. It's a standard technique, and it makes for an excelent ending.
Ep21 did none of that whatsoever. There was no drama. There was no suspence. There was no everything-falling-into-place. There was not plot points revealed. There was nothing whatsoever that made it like a season final. You just stopped the damn episode right where it would have begun to get interesting and dramatic. FAIL. This episode would have been fine (the cut to all the characters was a good idea, and the accumulation speach, though lame, was kind of fitting) IF it had been the 2nd last episode. The whole season feels like there should be one more episode to it, like you cut the final out.
Anyway, aside from the fact that the episode was NOTHING LIKE A FINAL IN A SEASON WHATSOFREAKING EVER it was an average episode. The cut away to all the characters was kind of interesting, and the scene outside of the Dragon's Lair was good, but the rest of the episode was a bit boring. The same old jokes get boring after a while (YES! We are AWARE Peter knows nothing! Get over it!), though some parts were funny. Not that funny though (Mind you, nothing will beat the excelent broth line for me).
Overall, I give it a 5/10. An okay episode, but a complete letdown as a season final.
...
Now get on with Season 2. The next episode should be a good one.
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I reject your reality, and substitute my own! - Adam Savage |
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Draxxar
Red Dragon Inn Regular
Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 86
Location: Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I was thinking it would have been tons funnier if they had voice acted being really, really, *really* drunk going after the dragon. Nothing funnier than a couple of drunks going after an impossible task. |
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Wizard Weatherwax
Cheesy Wax
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 379
Location: Portugal
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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It´s here? It´s here? It´s finally here?
Cheese be praised! The lads did it!
Hit it, gang!
Oh happy day (oh happy day)
I'm talking about the happy days (oh happy day)
C'mon and talk about the happy days (oh happy day)
Oh, oh, oh happy days (oh happy day)
Ooh talking about happy day (oh happy day)
Oh yeah, I know I'm talking about happy days (oh happy day)
Oh yeah, sing it, sing it, sing it, yeah, yeah (oh happy day)
Oh, oh, oh
Oh happy day.....
This is it…
Now it is the time…
Like the old lady in Matrix used to say: “Everything that has a beginning, has an end.”
Can you feel it? Can you feel it? It is time…
The two Heroes are ready. The villains are ready. The rest of the gang (including the dead) are ready. The fans are ready.
On the count of three…
One, two, three!
After watching the Episode
Wow! Not bad!
A fine last Episode, to end this First Series.
The only problem I found while watching it, was the sound of some of the characters (the two female sellers, for example).
And yes… The end almost made me break the monitor. You guys are evil. Only evil guys would end an Episode in its climax.
Snifff…
Congratulations, lads! A job well done! You guys kick rocks!
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The Philosophy of Homer Simpson
Donuts. Is there anything they can't do?
Here's to alcohol: The source of, and answer to, all of life's problems.
Relax. What is mind? No matter. What is matter? Never mind!
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Tawmis
Peter The Ranger (Admin) +
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 3999
Location: In The Dragon Cave.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| sotc wrote: | Yay!
I will watch this as soon as I can. Probably has to wait until tomorrow, but still, very glad you put 'er up. |
Lemme know what ye think when ye do. Seems to be getting mixed reviews. Some say its funny, some say a let down!
| Draxxar wrote: | I don't know if I want to spoil it for everyone else who hasn't seen it yet but those other heroes in gold and blue armor... wow. Cool armor! Now I have to go into my NWN editor and see how to make that armor combo. Or did you guys use a special HAK file for that?
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I see ye found the armor (down later in the post). Yeah, the knights were designed long before we installed the CEP (Community Expansion Pack). So those were standard pieces - just edited with color.
| Draxxar wrote: |
Darn... but yet another cliff hanger. At least the dragon didn't open up the conversation with a riddle. Like as soon as they barged in the dragon would immideatly ask,"what is the square root of 47?" and if they said anything at all and it was wrong, like even "pardon?" then they'd be toasted on the spot. Those are the worst kind of dragons.
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Well, we wanted to end it with a cliff hanger, naturally - to see if we could drag people back once Season Two started. If they had gone in and killed the dragon - how would we start Season Two? So naturally, we end it with the cliff hanger - making people wonder what happens next! (Or so we would like to think that they're wondering about that)... And as for what he says, we use a lot of movie references and Dean's (one!) line is based off a movie... anyone know?
| Draxxar wrote: |
Great episode!
One thing though, and I don't know if anyone pointed it out or not but some of that ambient (?) wind and background "zone" noise seems to make it a little hard sometimes to hear the full conversations. Of course my hearing isn't top notch thanks to having worked around jet engines and... um... loud boom boxes. Good audio though regardless. Just I guess maybe it's not easy blending in background noise with dialogue and not sacrafice one or the other too much. It's good is what I'm saying - but there are parts... like when the goblins speak, where I'll take the video speed in windows media player and cut the speed in half to slow down the audio so I can hear the fast talking gobbies. Of course I saw that you mentioned already there were audio problems, so I can understand, especially if people were on different mics on different computers (like my mic is really really bad for example). Not bad though. The voices were understandable. I think it's mainly the background noise (i.e. wind or tavern chatter) that's seeping through - or was that to mask out background noise you found in the voice acting clips? /shrug.
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You are correct with the last question. Where the ambient is loudest (I think) is when Poppy and Amiee are talking, and when Douglas the Guard talks. For Poppy and Amiee, there was more snap, crackle, pop than a morning breakfast ceral (a joke that won't make sense possibly, outside the United States). So I had to edit it over and clean it so many times, that the actual voice parts got effected and muffled - so I used a higher ambient sound to cover it - and for Douglas, I had mentioned to be excited in his lines - he took it a tad too far and yelled all his parts - so that his audio was insanely difficult because it was all "in the red." So on his parts, you can hear the wind pick up much louder, to try and cover that.
And the goblins have always been difficult to understand, because we talk normally - then use an editor to speed up the pitch/voices about 50% faster than normal.
| Draxxar wrote: |
Over all though I love this stuff. Great work on this, and can't wait for the next season to begin.... which brings up the next obvious question. When does the next season begin?
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We're powering through the writing. What we want to do this time to prevent any problems is finish writing the Season completely - invite everyone who can do the voices locally to come over one day and have a "NeN BBQ" so we can all record our lines in one day.
Obviously, there's some folks not local to us that won't be able to do this.
| Nameless wrote: |
I'm going to be completely honest and say that ep21 was a complete and utter let-down. I was going to go into a huge rant about why, but it's 9:40pm here and I'm tired.
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No worries. As with every episode, there's always mixed reviews. Some people love the goblins, some people utterly hate them. Some people loved Episode 19 that focused on the villains, some people didn't like that Peter and Grayson were not in the episode at all.
So I take the good and the bad, and know that there's no way of pleasing everyone.
| Nameless wrote: |
There was no drama. There was no suspence.
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There was a race for the heroes to beat the knights to the cave... (of course, they assumed that's why the knights were there...)
| Nameless wrote: |
There was no everything-falling-into-place. There was not plot points revealed.
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Hey - we learn that the two dwarf miners in Episode 2, intentionally made mention of the dragon, as they passed Peter and Grayson - just to muck with their minds, never expecting they'd actually go after a dragon!
| Nameless wrote: |
There was nothing whatsoever that made it like a season final. You just stopped the damn episode right where it would have begun to get interesting and dramatic. FAIL.
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This somewhat successful show LOST ended its season the same way...
| Nameless wrote: |
Overall, I give it a 5/10. An okay episode, but a complete letdown as a season final.
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I will gladly take that rating!
| Nameless wrote: |
Now get on with Season 2. The next episode should be a good one. |
It should. I would hope.
| Draxxar wrote: | | Yeah, I was thinking it would have been tons funnier if they had voice acted being really, really, *really* drunk going after the dragon. Nothing funnier than a couple of drunks going after an impossible task. |
I don't think Peter or Grayson need to be drunk to make this an impossible task,... their mental capicity is the same, I believe, whether drunk or sober. Only drunk, body parts tend to go numb.
| Wizard Weatherwax wrote: |
It´s here? It´s here? It´s finally here? Cheese be praised! The lads did it!
Now it is the time…
Like the old lady in Matrix used to say: “Everything that has a beginning, has an end.” Can you feel it? Can you feel it? It is time… The two Heroes are ready. The villains are ready. The rest of the gang (including the dead) are ready. The fans are ready. On the count of three… One, two, three!
After watching the Episode
Wow! Not bad!
A fine last Episode, to end this First Series. The only problem I found while watching it, was the sound of some of the characters (the two female sellers, for example). And yes… The end almost made me break the monitor. You guys are evil. Only evil guys would end an Episode in its climax. Snifff… Congratulations, lads! A job well done! You guys kick rocks! |
Heh, I should release the raw audio of Poppy and Amiee and Douglas so ye can see... er, hear - what I had to work with!
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tmriddle1331
My Avatar Is Broken
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 1946
Location: A place were cake is > pie!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Tawmis I need you to send me $ for a new that kicks rocks-O-Meter, mine just exploded!
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TMRiddle1331: because I kick rocks
| Tawmis wrote: | | I am going to go to NY and kick some heads in... then kick some rocks on those heads I have kicked in. |
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Tawmis
Peter The Ranger (Admin) +
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 3999
Location: In The Dragon Cave.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| tmriddle1331 wrote: | | Tawmis I need you to send me $ for a new that kicks rocks-O-Meter, mine just exploded! |
LOL... so I am assuming ye liked it? I got that impression from the RvB forum...
Liked the newest goblin addition did ya?
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sotc
I love Adam (and I sponsored!)
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 275
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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I think I missed something. That's the feeling I got from this ep. Hmmm.
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Tawmis
Peter The Ranger (Admin) +
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 3999
Location: In The Dragon Cave.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| sotc wrote: | | I think I missed something. That's the feeling I got from this ep. Hmmm. |
Care to expand a bit more on that?
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D-Slash
Resident Artist
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Y0u know me, I usually don't critize about the episode itself persay, but rather the method and quality of it.
Before that I would like to say it was a good episode that filled in what everyone was up to (except Alan...aww i miss him) but perhaps too much of a cliff hanger for a season ender.
Audio was a bit all over the place, meaning it didn't sound like it was all recorded in the same setting in mic. But I guess that can be expected due to the Cast living every which way.
Also when Peter and Grayson were moving up the stairs it looked a tad awkward, not sure how you did it but might I suggest using waypoints next time if you didn't already?
In summary, this episode explained what was going on with everyone although a bit quick for all the information it tried to give us, also had its forgiveable flaws, and maybe a bit much of a cliff hanger.
7.5/10, nicely done guys
Great First Season! |
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Nameless
Neverending Nerd*
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 1375
Location: Bravely adventuring beyond the fourth wall.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Tawmis wrote: | | Nameless wrote: |
There was nothing whatsoever that made it like a season final. You just stopped the damn episode right where it would have begun to get interesting and dramatic. FAIL.
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This somewhat successful show LOST ended its season the same way...
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Yeah, I know. And I was incredibly tempted to stop watching LOST at thath point  (I did keep watching it... but only because I was bored as hell the first night the second season was on). 
BTW, why does Paul get wings? Dwarves, being underground creatures and all, didn't really strike me as the wings type. Now, Ronald would have made sense with wings. He would no doubt make a joke about how utterly irrisitable he is now, or some such. But Paul?
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Tawmis
Peter The Ranger (Admin) +
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 3999
Location: In The Dragon Cave.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| D-Slash wrote: | Y0u know me, I usually don't critize about the episode itself persay, but rather the method and quality of it.
Before that I would like to say it was a good episode that filled in what everyone was up to (except Alan...aww i miss him) but perhaps too much of a cliff hanger for a season ender.
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Well, I think the way its being written, Episode 22 is going to pick up EXACTLY where 21 is leaving off. So it's almost going to seem like that it all keeps flowing together, despite Episode 22 being the beginning of Season Two.
I think with the way we write the scripts - it flows more around a story that really doesn't have a good spot to "stop" and call it an ending for the Season. Because if we stopped with them doing whatever it is that's gonna happen with dragon, then folks might wonder, "Well, nice that the dragon thing is resolved - but what about Andrea and Daniel? I feel like we should have gotten to know more about them."
Season Two will kick off with learning much more about being heroes, much more about the villains, and much more with the jokes. I think ending Season One where we did was the best "breaking" point for us - because after that, things really start getting explained and setting up Season Two.
| D-Slash wrote: |
Audio was a bit all over the place, meaning it didn't sound like it was all recorded in the same setting in mic. But I guess that can be expected due to the Cast living every which way.
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Audio was my biggest qualm editing this one. But as pointed out, it's because of the differences of mics (although ironically Poppy and Aim were recorded with the same mic that Adam and I use, but there was some technical difficulty apparently that wasn't really realized till the audio was in my hands).
| D-Slash wrote: |
Also when Peter and Grayson were moving up the stairs it looked a tad awkward, not sure how you did it but might I suggest using waypoints next time if you didn't already?
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We never use waypoints. We manually control the characters (or Adam does, these days). What we found with waypoints (and you can see it in the background with the guards sometimes) - that if they're too close to one another (one behind the other) - if the one in front pauses, the one following will take like three steps back and "skip" a bit. So we use way points to move guards and NPCs in the background, but the characters that talk are all manually controlled.
| D-Slash wrote: |
In summary, this episode explained what was going on with everyone although a bit quick for all the information it tried to give us, also had its forgiveable flaws, and maybe a bit much of a cliff hanger.
7.5/10, nicely done guys
Great First Season! |
Thank ye! Gladly take that score!
| Nameless wrote: |
Yeah, I know. And I was incredibly tempted to stop watching LOST at thath point (I did keep watching it... but only because I was bored as hell the first night the second season was on).
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Maybe we can bank on people being bored and downloading Season Two. After all, wasn't it you who said, "Aduh, of course it sucked, or else it wouldn't be NeN?"
| Nameless wrote: |
BTW, why does Paul get wings? Dwarves, being underground creatures and all, didn't really strike me as the wings type. Now, Ronald would have made sense with wings. He would no doubt make a joke about how utterly irrisitable he is now, or some such. But Paul?
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It's to show that he's dead - although for some reason the transparency didn't come out for Pawl's character (where it did for Ronald the Wreckless). That issue has been fixed. And the wings are on Pawl the Dorf, not only to show he's dead (and all angelic like) - but because we do anything to torment Paul (the voice actor) and run his character through the mill. Camel toe pants, a horrible accent, and now a dwarf with girly angelic wings.
It's fun for us.
It really is.
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