Interview with Floro Dery

Floro Dery was the man most directly responsible for the look and feel of the Transformers cartoon series as we know it today, and was single handedly responsible for designing every new character, location, and device featured in The Transformers: the Movie.  In July of 2002, he was gracious enough to answer some questions about his work on the series and movie, revealing how many of his creations were brought to life.

ZMFTS:  Let's start with the basics.  You were originally involved with the Transformers cartoon as design supervisor, setting the visual design style for the television series.  Does this extend to the look of the characters as well as the locales?

Floro Dery:  Yes. Aside from the design supervisor I was also the character designer.

ZMFTS:  There's a rumor that's been floating around that John Romita of Marvel Comics did all or most of the original character designs for the show.  What can you tell me about this?  Was Romita involved in the design work at all?

FD:  I know John Romita by name, but I never saw him work at Marvel Studios. My assistants and I were the only ones working on the designs for the Transformers series (first season, and early part of the second). I'm surprised why, after all these years, all of a sudden his name came out. What I do know is that the animation cartoon designs for the first season of the Transformers series came from Japan. I simplified it further and my assistants did the clean-up. Furthermore I did the original concept development designs and animation cartoon designs of the Transformer movie, almost all by myself. Many artists just did clean-up and turn arounds of my designs. Marvel studios sent all these designs to Marvel comics, and they just copied my design for a comics series.

ZMFTS:  What about the human characters and other supporting characters in the series, like Spike and Sparkplug Witwicky?  Who was typically responsible for their visual design?

FD:  I also designed all the human characters in the movie and series. This includes all the incidental robot and human designs in the series.

ZMFTS:  Did you create the original Autobot symbol and Decepticon symbol? Do you recall what they were based on, if anything?

FD:  I didn't directly design an Autobot or Decepticon symbol. But I did design a Decepticon secret base that looks close to their symbol. Probably the Korean or Japanese artist designed the symbol. These symbols are based on the face of a robot, but a stylized version.

ZMFTS:  Were you also responsible for designing the original Autobot and Decepticon ships from the first episode?  Did you happen to give the ships names, and if so, what were they?

FD:  Yes, I did design the Autobot and Decepticon spaceships. But there are so many and they didn't have any special name, just "Autobot or Decepticon spaceship". I checked my files and I found out that the spaceships I designed I designated spaceship A, B, C, etc. some have names, others do not. Still others who were named after the robots who occupied them. For example, the Insecticon spaceship, Decepticon spaceship, etc. Sometimes Hasbro would change the name and it isn't the same name as the one in my originals. Spaceship A is called the Ark. This is the first spaceship I designed for the Transformers series.

ZMFTS:  I've noticed that some of the model sheet designs for the first-season characters bear a striking resemblance to the Hasbro package art. Here are a few comparisons so you can see what I mean.  Is it true that you used the box art for reference when designing the original cartoon models?  Was doing it that way easier or harder than using the toys themselves for reference?

FD:  If there was box art, then I would copy it. But most of the time I based my animation designs on the toys. And of course it is easier to copy box art, than to base a design on a toy. You have to use dramatic staging and exaggeration.

ZMFTS:  Many of the first-season characters looked very different from their toys.  For starters, they had more simple designs, obviously to make them easier to animate.  They also had more humanoid body proportions than they toys, and in many cases their faces looked more human.  Was this your idea to portray the characters this way, or was it something Hasbro wanted?  Do you think that robots built like humans are easier to relate to?

FD:  The initial animation designs from Japan, like Optimus Prime, looked like humans. I picked up on this, but I made it better and much more human-like so that it would be easy to relate to.

ZMFTS:  So the first batch of characters were actually designed in Japan?

FD:  For the Transformers series, the Japanese were the designers of the toys. For the Transformers movie, I am the designer of the toys. However, I also designed the animation characters based on Japanese toys for the series. I checked some of my records and files, and the animation designs I did for the series and cleaned-up by my assistants were:

Perceptor, Smokescreen, Tracks, Red Alert, Inferno, Grapple, Hoist, Blaster, Ramjet, Thrust, Dirge, All the triple changers, Defense center-play set, Omega Supreme, Jetfire, All dinobots, Shockwave, All constructicons, All insecticons, Devastator, All cassette robots, etc. Also in my files, I have robot animation designs called Stunticons. There are many more robots designs I have in my files, but with indication "for clean-up only". I have to see the actual toys to compare them with my animation designs, where they were based. (There are so many more. My files are more than 1000 pages. So I'll have to check again to see what I missed.)

I also designed all the main and incidental human characters, and all incidental robots, which includes: Dion, Female ninja robot, Ariel, Orion Pax, Alpha Trion, all warrior robots, Guardian robot, etc. I designed all the spaceships, planets, background layouts, and most props. In short, I set the style and look for the Transformers series. Since I am also the original concept designer of the Transformers movie, I can safely say that I set the style and look of the Transformers universe.All of the animation model sheets I designed were sent by Marvel Studios to Marvel comics. The Marvel comics' artists just copied it.

ZMFTS:  I notice that you've listed Jetfire as one of the characters you designed.  It's my understanding that the first version of the character was based closely on the toy (which resembled a Macross/Robotech fighter), but the character was redesigned and renamed Skyfire for legal reasons.  Did you create both the Jetfire and Skyfire designs?

FD:  I remember about this legal thing. I was told by the producer to redesign some animation jet characters. I did design Jetfire, but I can't remember if it was renamed Skyfire. Usually, when I finish designing a character I just give it to my assistants, who give it to the production manager, who then names the characters. But I could safely say that aside from Optimus Prime, and a few others were initially done in Japan, which I simplified further, after that I designed all the animation characters up to the second season, except for about 5 or 10 shows, more or less.

ZMFTS:  The characters from the second season appear to have been designed differently from the first batch.  Newer characters like Smokescreen, Hoist, and Ramjet, were actually based on repaints of first-season toys (Bluestreak, Trailbreaker, and Starscream, in this case).  Even though the toys were the same as before, the designs for the newer characters are short and squat, staying much closer to the toy designs this time.  Here are some more comparisons.  Were you deliberately trying to make the second-season robots look different from the first-season characters?  I'm especially curious about your decision to go with the "conehead" look for Ramjet, since the toy instructions don't actually tell you to transform him that way.

FD:  The second season was just an extension of the first. The differences are probably artistic differences. The animation for the first season was done in Japan and the animation for the second season was done in Korea. Sometimes both. Other reasons are due to the following circumstances:

1) same toys, painted differently

2) same cars with different transformation variation, which makes the robot look slightly different (ie: given the same car I could transform it using different variations and the result will have a slightly different look)

3) same cars with different attached weapons and parts

4) different cars with same transformation variation (ie: given two different cars and using the same transforming variation, the result is 2 slightly similar robots)

I did not deliberately change the second season characters from the first. Usually, aside from the above reasons, any artist who designs something over and over again, by time, his/her work will become different. And about Ramjet, he had a "conehead" because he is a jet. It is the front, pointed part of the jet. It is the result of the transformation, from a jet to a robot.

ZMFTS:  I've got a few specific questions from the episodes themselves.  In the first episode, before the characters crashed on Earth, we got to see a few of their Cybertronic vehicle forms, which naturally looked nothing like the vehicle modes they would later turn into on Earth. Their robot modes never changed, though--Jazz always had Porsche headlights on his chest, for example.  Do you know why the characters we saw on Cybertron didn't have different-looking robot forms to match their Cybertronic vehicle modes?

FD:  The vehicle mode were given different styles in order to blend in with the environment on Earth. The robot wasn't changed because it is still alien. A robot stays a robot.

ZMFTS:  One oddity from the first episode was an orange crane named Hauler.  The character only appeared in one scene, never transformed, and there was no toy named Hauler ever released.  Later, during the second season, a character named Grapple was introduced (whom you designed) who also turned into an orange crane. Some fans have guessed that Hauler was actually an early version of the character who became Grapple.  Can you shed any light on this mystery?

FD:  I did design Grapple who was an orange crane, but he is probably the same as Hauler because it is common in animation to use the same old characters to save on production costs.

ZMFTS:  The second season episode "The Search for Alpha Trion" features the first appearance of the female Autobots, commanded by Elita One.  Were you their designer as well?  The main reason I'm curious about this is because we never see Elita One's vehicle mode clearly in the episode, and I was curious as to what she might have transformed into.

FD:  Yes, I did design the female autobots. But the original name is different from the one in the series. Elita One is Ariel, after the name change, but I did not design a vehicle mode for her.

ZMFTS:  The cartoon had a number of visual elements that separated the Autobots from the Decepticons.  One of these was the color of the technology they used--Autobots typically used orange technology (including the Ark and Autobot City) while the Decepticons leaned toward purple technology (their space cruiser/headquarters, mothership from the movie, and most of their weapons-of-the-week).  Was this your idea?  Do you know why these colors were chosen?

FD:  I was not involved in the coloring of the Autobots and Decepticons in the movie or series. The Japanese or Korean artists were probably involved in this, because the production was done in Korea or Japan.  [Note: During the course of this interview I learned that the late Phyllis Craig was responsible for the color models in the show--Zob.]

ZMFTS:  Does that also include the eye colors chosen for the characters (typically, blue eyes for Autobots and red eyes for Decepticons)?

FD:  Same answer. As I mentioned before, I was only involved in the first and early part of the second season. I was pulled out to work on the movie.

ZMFTS:  Let's move onto the movie, then.  Easily the most epic of the Transformers adventures, the movie introduced dozens of new characters, vehicles, and locales.  As the concept designer for the movie, your task must have been enormous.  How many new designs were required for the film?  Di you recall how long it took you to come up with them?

FD:  All the designs I did took me about 6 months. There were more than 200 original concept designs. If you include all the small designs, then there are more than 500.

ZMFTS:  The Quintessons are especially interesting, since they're such a dramatic divergence from your standard humanoid aliens we've always seen in the Transformers universe.  What was your inspiration for their design?

FD:  In 1970, I designed a toy that had parts revolving around a cylinder. I used that same idea when I was designing the Quintessons. It has five faces, each face representing a different personality. For example, the skull represents death, etc.

ZMFTS:  When you were creating the characters for the movie, did Hasbro give you any idea of what types of characters they were looking for?  Did they specifically ask for a rebellious teenager Autobot, a female Autobot, a new version of Megatron, etc.?  Or did you create the ideas behind these characters as well as their physical designs?

FD:  Initially, Marvel studios gave me a general half-page outline to give me an idea of what they wanted. But generally, I ignored it and came up with my own original designs. That's why I have the credit "Original Concept Designer".

ZMFTS:  It's interesting to note that the movie characters abandoned the typical box-shaped design of the original Transformers characters; your movie designs are far more rounded and streamlined.  Was this a deliberate move on your part to make the new generation of characters more futuristic than their predecessors?

FD:  I deliberately changed the design to make it more futuristic. In fact, there are some other designs I did on my own, that I cannot post on my web site right now. The designs are beyond futuristic.

ZMFTS:  Would you describe the vehicle modes for the movie characters as being futuristic Earth vehicles, or Cybertronic vehicle forms?

FD:  I stylized the vehicle modes in the movie in order to be different from Earth. In essence, they are Cybertronic vehicles.

ZMFTS:  When designing the movie characters, did you know at the time that Hasbro planned to render them in three-dimensional toy form?  How did that affect the way you designed them?  Did you plan Hot Rod's vehicle-mode transformation, for example, in such a way that Hasbro would be able to reproduce it in a toy?  Did Hasbro ever communicate with you about designs that they weren't able to turn into transforming toys?

FD:  I was not told that the characters I designed in the movie would become toys. But I designed the characters in such a way that they are transformable. If you've seen Gnaw, the Sharkticon I designed, then you will have an idea. Same thing goes for Hot Rod. He is my original concept design. Hasbro had no input and never communicated with me. I wasn't even involved in any meetings at Marvel studios. I did it all by myself, without anyone else's input. Everyone else just picked up on my designs.

ZMFTS:  Scourge and the Sweeps have the unusual ability to stick their robot heads up in vehicle mode, and they do this in the movie as well as the subsequent cartoon episodes. What purpose does this serve?

FD:  The heads stick out because the idea is like a regular fighter plane. You can see just the head of the fighter pilot.  If you have seen my "Egg" design on my web site, I based Scourge on it.

ZMFTS:  I'm also curious about Cyclonus. The toy had detachable wings, and his profile in Marvel Comics explained this as being an additional flight mode used for space travel. Was this part of your design, or just something Hasbro came up with for the toy?

FD:  My original design for Cyclonus has fixed wings. When it is transformed into robot mode, the wings can be folded. The Japanese toy engineers probably could not figure out my design because Hasbro never communicated with me.So, the engineers probably made the wings detachable because they had difficulty figuring out how to transform it. What Hasbro came up with is an additional flight mode for space travel to justify it.

ZMFTS:  Of course, some of the characters from the movie already existed in toy form, even before they were added to the Transformers toy line. One of them was Ultra Magnus, who was essentially Optimus Prime with a different trailer, originally sold as part of the Diaclone toy line in Japan. Were you responsible for the cartoon design for Ultra Magnus as well?  How would you say basing your designs on toys is different than creating them from scratch?

FD:  I did not design Ultra Magnus in the movie. But I did design an Ultra Magnus character which was not used. I think mine is much better than the one in the movie. It's easier to design from toys, because you can just copy it. It's very difficult to start from scratch. Most of the movie characters I designed from scratch.

ZMFTS:  What about Autobot City?  Was your design based on an existing toy?  The reason I ask is because Hasbro did release a toy called Metroplex, which was referred to as Autobot City in the cartoon series, but which also had a robot mode.  This toy was actually a pre-Transformer design, originally conceived for the Diaclone line as well, and there are some strong similarities between the toy and your city design.  What can you tell me about this?

FD:  I have two version of Autobot City. The first one was not used because it was too big and too complicated for animation. It looked like a hand that closed and opened. This was my most beautiful design, my masterpiece. I initially wanted to post it on my web site, but someone wanted to use it for free in a movie. Thus, I didn't post it. For the second one, I used New York City as my model. The producer wanted me to model my design after the toy. I got lazy and didn't want to change my design anymore, so I just added some parts similar to the toy on top of my original design to accommodate the producer. The result was the one used in the movie.

ZMFTS:  There seem to be two versions of nearly every one of the movie characters, in fact.  Your original designs were the ones the toys were based on, and appear in the movie poster as well as the Marvel Comics adaptation.  The revised versions (the ones that appeared in the finished film) generally have less detail, and in a few cases have altered body designs.  Do you know why these models were changed at such a late stage?

FD:  The designs were probably changed due to artistic differences. Or they got lazy from copying my designs.

ZMFTS:  Out of curiosity, have you ever seen any of the toys that were based on your movie designs? What did you think of them?

FD:  I have all the toys based on my designs, and I think they are very close to my original idea. In fact, all of them are still unopened after all these years.

ZMFTS:  I'd like to address some specific scenes from the movie for a moment.  The death of Optimus Prime was a powerful moment, and one of the elements that made his death so dramatic was when all the color drained away from his body, leaving behind a dark grey husk.  I realize that you weren't involved in creating the color models for the characters, but do you know anything about this particular scene?

FD:  Same answer as before.

ZMFTS:  During Starscream's coronation scene, in which Starscream (briefly) claims leadership of the Decepticons, he's decked out in an ornate crown and regal, flowing cape.  Close examination of this scene also reveals that Starscream's body itself was redesigned, with differently-shaped armor and more intricate details.  Was this redesign your doing?

FD:  I didn't realize until now that Starscream's design was different. Probably the animation supervisor or animator changed it slightly.

ZMFTS:  The planet-eating monster known as Unicron was perhaps the most visually stunning character in the film, both as a planet and as a robot.  Curiously, a preliminary design for a transforming robot/planet appears in the pages of the Takara SF Land Encyclopedia, noting that the design was a draft for a character in the movie.  Did you base your Unicron design on this earlier concept drawing?

FD:  No, Unicron is my own original concept design. Even the planet transforming into a robot is my original idea. That's why my credit in the movie is original concept designer. Maybe Takara copied my design because a lot of fans wanted a Unicron toy, but one was never made by Hasbro.

ZMFTS:  How detailed were your designs for Unicron?  For example, there are scenes in which he eats planets and we get to watch his meal moving through his digestion system.  Did you design Unicron's inner workings as well?

FD:  My design for Unicron is very detailed. From his internal organs, to his planet-like shape, to his robot transformation, all of that was my design. In fact, the original designs of all the internal organs, was 2' x 7'. There were 3 of them.

ZMFTS:  Some fans have wondered about the part of Unicron's brain that features the TV screens, which appear to play back events as Unicron watches them from afar.  What is their purpose?  Does Unicron have to broadcast events on these screens before he knows what's going on?

FD:  The purpose of the tv screens are like security monitors in a building, which monitors everything in the building. In the case of Unicron he can see everything that is going on inside his body as shown in his tv brain.

ZMFTS:  Your web site indicates that Unicron was originally designed with an orbiting moon for his planet mode (which was also incorporated into one of the early, unreleased toy designs).  Do you know what purpose this moon might have served, and why it was removed from his final design?

FD:  I originally designed the moon as a kind of mini-Unicron, like Mini-Me of Dr. Evil. But Hasbro never picked up on my idea and they removed it, because I never told them what it was all about.

ZMFTS:  I've noticed your name is absent from the credits for the third season, which immediately followed the movie. Why did you leave the show? Do you know who was responsible for carrying on in your stead?

FD:  I did not leave the show. After I finished the movie I was laid off by Marvel Studios. Since, I dominated the show and "I became the Transformers", they probably had to get rid of me. I created too many designs, that they no longer needed me. So, I was jobless and walking in Hollywood for a while. The artists who did the turn-arounds and clean-up of my designs carried on the work for a long time. Life sucks doesn't it? I'm not surprised though. Some other person even got credit for all the work I did.

ZMFTS:  If you could go back and do it all over again, are there any Transformers designs that you would have done differently? Which designs are you most proud of?

FD:  If I were to redesign my designs, I would redesign all of them and make them better than before. It would be beyond futuristic. The design I'm most proud was not used in the movie. It was my first version of Autobot City, that I mentioned earlier. Other designs I liked were those of Gnaw and Hot Rod.

ZMFTS:  Thank you very much for your time and effort. You helped shape a vast universe which hundreds of thousands of children and adults still celebrate today, and your contributions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks also go to Rik Bakke, Steve-o Stonebraker, and ViceGripX, who submitted questions for this interview.

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