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Robbie v Hoskins
15/05/2007 14:55 - (SA)
Johannesburg - Transcript of 702 Talk Radio presenter John Robbie's interview with Saru president Oregan Hoskins over the Luke Watson saga.
Listen to interview
John Robbie: Well only in South African can we have a fabulous weekend like we have had. Two wins in the Super 14 semi-finals, which means we have won the cup, we've won it. We don't even have to worry about the final. Whichever team you want, your favourite team will be in the final, and then of course we get this unbelievable news, that Jake White selects his squad for the training squad. This is for the Springboks. This is the squad he is going to be accountable for. He specifically does not pick Luke Watson, and we know that he has a problem from the rugby point of view with Luke Watson, only to discover that the presidency has selected Luke Watson into the squad. Well this goes against just about everything in international rugby, in rugby. You've got a coach, and you've got selectors, and they pick the team.
Well on the line the man who was involved in that decision, president of Saru, Oregon Hoskins. Oregan joins us from Durban. Oregan thank you for talking to us and good morning.
Oregon Hoskins: Hello John.
John Robbie: Is it true that Jake did not pick Watson, and you guys did?
Oregon Hoskins: Yes.
John Robbie: Doesn't that make a mockery of the whole idea of having a selection panel?
Oregon Hoskins: I have just spoken to your sister station in Cape Town, Cape Talk, and they totally disagree with you.
John Robbie: Well I don't care about that Regan, doesn't it make a mockery of having a selection panel?
Oregon Hoskins: John that's, of course you are entitled to your opinion, I don't agree with you.
John Robbie: So why do you have a selection panel if they don't select the team?
Oregon Hoskins: John obviously you know... It's an unprecedented move, and it's not something that I would like to see happen again.
John Robbie: Why not?
Oregon Hoskins: Because as you said, the coaches and the selectors are there to do their job, but we believe here that we have a situation that is not tenable. We have a player who was a Super 14 player of the year in 2006. Has played well enough in 2007 to warrant selection to the training camp, has not been selected and we have done what we did.
John Robbie: But Bradley Barrett has had a fantastic season. Derick Hougaard has just scored points, has taken the Bulls in the most magnificent way to the final. Should we put them in, Oregan?
Oregon Hoskins: No.
John Robbie: Why not?
Oregon Hoskins: Were they the Super 14 players of the year last year?
John Robbie: But that was last year, Oregan.
Oregon Hoskins: Yes, but Luke Watson has had a fantastic Super 14 season in 2007, John.
John Robbie: But it's the principle Oregan, surely. Every single rugby fan in this country believes he can pick a better team and a better squad than the coach. I mean that's what sport is...
Oregon Hoskins: Have you solicited the rugby people's view on this matter?
John Robbie: But that's irrelevant, Oregan.
Oregon Hoskins: You just referred to that fact, John.
John Robbie: Yes, but everybody thinks they can pick a squad.
Oregon Hoskins: No, not everybody, we are talking about popular opinion, John.
John Robbie: But are you therefore saying that popular opinion selects the squad?
Oregon Hoskins: No, no, no, I am saying at times popular opinion is correct.
John Robbie: But then why not have a vote for a team. Why not do away with selectors, we can use the internet and vote the team in, Oregan.
Oregon Hoskins: Well look John, you have heard what our situation is, and what more do you want me to say?
John Robbie: I mean, I would like you to stand up... I mean how can you say Oregan, that you don't want the situation to happen again. You have basically said that it's unprecedented, that you have agreed with me that this goes against the whole principle of having a selection committee, and yet you are still justifying it. I can't believe it.
Oregon Hoskins: Okay, what more do you want me to say John Robbie?
John Robbie: Well what are you going to do to Jake White now, if Luke Watson, having got into this squad, performs badly? If he is disruptive to the squad, if whatever reason, surely now Jake White cannot be accountable for the performance of a team that hasn't been selected by himself?
Oregon Hoskins: What do you think we are going to do to Jake White?
John Robbie: Well I am amazed that Jake White hasn't resigned. I mean you've basically said to Jake White, you coach a side and you select a side, and then you are responsible for the side. But now what you have basically said is that you are not good enough to do it. We are going to... we know more about rugby than you do.
Oregon Hoskins: No.
John Robbie: That's basically what you are saying Oregan, isn't it?
Oregon Hoskins: John, this is a training squad for this team of 45 or 46 players, a training squad.
John Robbie: Yes, a Springbok training squad.
Oregon Hoskins: It is not the team itself, for number one.
John Robbie: But forgive me Oregan, but Jake White is responsible for training the Springbok team, is he not? But he's not responsible enough to have his squad selected by him?
Oregon Hoskins: As a principle, yes, I agree with you.
John Robbie: So you have gone against principle?
Oregon Hoskins: Yes.
John Robbie: Why?
Oregon Hoskins: But I have just told you, and I am not going to repeat what I said to you earlier on, and the reason is that we think that the player Luke Watson is good enough to be in the training squad. We believe that the coach and the two National selectors are wrong. We believe that's its time that the player was given an opportunity to be in the training squad, and we stand by that.
John Robbie: Okay, so you have gone against principle now. Is this not a dangerous precedent, Oregan?
Oregon Hoskins: It is.
John Robbie: So even though you are telling me again, that it's only a training squad, so therefore by... you are suggesting that it's not all that important. It's not like putting him in the side; you have basically created this dangerous precedent, and gone against your principles.
Oregon Hoskins: Well you know, time will tell, John.
John Robbie: But this is what you are telling me, though Oregan.
Oregon Hoskins: John Robbie, you and I must have this conversation again in the near future, and then we can revisit the consequences of this decision, and let's make a date now. Let's talk about this in two to three months time.
John Robbie: Why do you say that? Why is that important?
Oregon Hoskins: Well it's important because time will judge whether you are wrong, or I am wrong.
John Robbie: But I am right in terms of the principle. You have agreed. Surely it's about principle, when you are the Saru president, the president of the South African Rugby Union, and you are basically telling me that you are not going to stick to your principles. That worries me, Oregan.
Oregon Hoskins: John you have a view and I have a view, and, you know, time will tell...
John Robbie: But Oregan we have agreed on that, we...
Oregon Hoskins: Agreed on what?
John Robbie: We have agreed that you have not stuck to your principles.
Oregon Hoskins: John, you see John you want to agree, you want to talk about ethics and principles all the time, and you are always on the high ground, because you are the expert on rugby, and nobody else knows the game of rugby.
John Robbie: But no Oregan...
Oregon Hoskins: And that's you, that's John Robbie.
John Robbie: No, Oregan you are saying...
Oregon Hoskins: No, John Robbie knows the game, you are the expert in this country, and nobody else knows the game of rugby. You are the expert, you are the man, and your view takes precedent...
John Robbie: No, you are wrong.
Oregon Hoskins: And if there is anybody else in the world, and Mr John Robbie is rugby persae. Personified as the man, the greatest, the best, he knows and nobody else is entitled to a view.
John Robbie: Oregan, your...
Oregon Hoskins: I am sorry Mr Robbie.
John Robbie: Oregan you are playing the man, and not the ball, Oregan.
Oregon Hoskins: No, no, no Mr Robbie...
John Robbie: You are Oregan...
Oregon Hoskins: For once you need to understand that other people also have a view in the game. We can also hold a ball and play the ball and not the man. And it's not just John Robbie who has a view that prevails against everybody and I disagree with you and you need to also allow other people to have views on the game of rugby. You are not the only expert in the world, I am sorry.
John Robbie: Regan, we are all agreed on different views. You are the one who is putting people into the squad who weren't selected. That's the difference, Oregan.
Oregon Hoskins: No, no, no, but you are coming across as you the expert, and you are the only one who has all the answers for the game of rugby.
John Robbie: Oregan I am a big fan of yours, and you have just disappointed me.
Oregon Hoskins: John you said that for a lot of other people as well, so it doesn't bother me.
John Robbie: Oregan, you are the one...
Oregon Hoskins: You said about other rugby leaders as well, that you are their man, and then all of a sudden you are no longer their man, so I actually wonder whether you stick to your word.
John Robbie: Oregan, thank you for talking to us.
Oregon Hoskins: Well, okay, thank you John, have a good day.
John Robbie: Bye-bye Oregan Hoskins, Saru president.
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