On the website, GodTube.com, there is this videoclip of Kenneth Hagin and Benny Hinn. The tagline to the video is: Hagin and Hinn - Jesus was born again!!!??? The video’s uploader says, “Beware of this heresy taught also by many preachers!”
In the video, Kenneth Hagin refers to Hebrews 1.5 which says:
For to which of the angels did He ever say, “You are my Son, Today I have begotten you?” And again, “I will be a father to him and he shall be a son to me?”
Hagin impliedly references Hebrews 2.9 for the proposition that Jesus tasted spiritual death for every man.
But Jesus made some little less than messengers we do behold: By reason of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honour, To the end that, by favour of God [separated from God] in behalf of every one he might taste death. (Hebrews 2.9, Rotherham with variant reading)
Benny Hinn shares the same thought pattern in saying that if Jesus was not reborn, then no man could be born again.
While lanuovania.org, the video’s uploader, attempts to scare away folks by crying, “Heresy!” it fails to provide a sound basis for why Hagin’s and Hinn’s preaching in the video qualifies as a “different gospel.” If Jesus was not “begotten” on the third day as Hebrews 1.5 appears to indicate and “death” in Hebrews 2.9 could not possibly mean spiritual death, lanuovania.org should lay it out. We shouldn’t just have to take that ministry’s (if that is what lanuovania.org is) word for it.
In Colossians 2.13, Paul wrote the following passage:
And as for you who were dead by your offenses and by the uncircumcision of your flesh, He hath brought you to life together with Him [συνεζωοποιησεν ῾υμας συν αυτο], having in favour forgiven us all our offenses. (Rotherham)
Mainline Christianity doesn’t seem to have a problem with the first part of the verse: “And as for you who were dead by your offenses and by the uncircumcision of your flesh.” You could walk into virtually any church in America and hear the pastor preach about how mankind is sinful and dead in sins. Those very same preachers also wouldn’t have a problem with the third part of the verse: “having in favour forgiven us all our offenses.” They are more than happy to say that God can forgive you your sins (technically that’s not 100% correct, but we’ll move on).
It is the middle part of the verse that makes the Theologically Astute like lanouvania.org squeamish. In the Greek, it literally says “he made alive together y’all with him” or “he-together-alive-made y’all with him.” What peels back their fingernails is that the Father’s action (he’s the active agent here), the “making alive” part, is the same for Jesus as it is with us. Paul does not make any distinction between Jesus’s resurrection and our “being made alive.”
We have been well-schooled in our own “being made alive.” In John 3.1-3, we hear Jesus speaking to Nicodemus about being “born-again”:
There was however a man from among the Pharisees, Nicodemus, his name, - ruler of the Jews. The same came unto him, by night, and said unto him - “Rabbi! We know that from God thou hast come, a teacher; For no one can be doing these signs which thou art doing, except God be with him.
Jesus answered and said unto him, - Verily, verily, I say unto thee: Except one be born from above, He cannot see the kingdom of God. (Rotherham)
In Paul’s writings, he speaks of being spiritually born-again or being “made alive” as being a “new creation”:
So that if any one is in Christ there is a new creation. (2 Cor. 5.17b, Rotherham)
For neither circumcision is anything, nor uncircumcision, But a new creation. (Gal. 6.15, Rotherham)
When we return to Colossians 2.13 with the understanding that “being made alive” is one in the same as being “born-again,” we must face the music of Paul’s language concerning Jesus. Jesus, he says, is also made alive by God’s power. If you pick up a handy-dandy Greek lexicon, you’ll see agreement on this:
BDAG: make alive together with someone;
Louw & Nida: to cause again to live with others - “to raise to life together with”;
Thayer: to make one alive together with another;
Greek Strong’s: to reanimate conjointly with … quicken together with.
It doesn’t take much to see that both Hagin and Hinn are right on the money with the literal translation of Colossians 2.13 - we were “made alive” or “born-again” as Jesus was “made alive” or “born-again.” So how do the Theologically Astute get around this? Louw & Nida shows us how:
There are serious semantic difficulties involved in a literal translation of συνευειρω or συζωοποιεω, for a literal rendering could either be interpreted as ‘to be raised to life at the same time with’ or ‘to be raised to life in the same way as,’ but the reference in Col 3:1 and Eph 2:5 is to a spiritual existence more than to a literal resurrection of the body. This means that both συνευειρω and συζωοποιεω must be understood as highly figurative. Hence, in Col 3:1 it may be necessary to translate ει ουν συνηγερθητε τω Χριστω as ‘since you have been raised to life, so to speak, with Christ’ or ‘since, as it were, you have been raised to life with Christ.’ In this way one may point to the fact of a figurative element involved.
[Note: The statement ‘to be raised to life in the same way as’ really says it all.]
So, instead of taking scripture for what it says, they “figurize” it - it really doesn’t mean what it says. It means what the Theologically Astute says it means.
The problem with that is if you say that the Jesus side of “he made alive together with” is highly figurative, then the “y’all” side of the verse must also be deemed highly figurative. That kind of reading takes the factual “ye must be born-again” and Paul’s “new creation” and turns it into a “highly figurative” redemption - a redemption that has all the substance of an Oprah show.
It is telling that the mainline church has come to the point of calling a strict and literal reading of scripture heresy.
{ 9 comments… read them below or add one }
My wife and I just had a discussion on this point. We had to really think hard about it. Here is what we came up with, we are born again believers indwelled by the Holy Spirit, she and I.
We have no comment on Hagin or Hinn. We do have a comment on Jesus. Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world. It was always planned. He was going to die for the sins of the world.
Humans are flesh, plus they are spirit. We must be born again. Jesus said we first must have a human birth, then he recommended to Nicodemus the new birth, Spiritual birth, being born again.
Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit in Mary’s womb. So he had a human body of flesh, but he had a perfect sinless non-Adamic spirit. And if that weren’t enough, the Holy Spirit came upon him at his baptism. Why? It was partly a sign to John that Jesus was Messiah, even though he doubted it later when he was jailed. It is said of Jesus too that on the cross he could have called down angels to deliver him from his affliction.
Jesus knew what he was doing, he’d sweated blood over it, but he was determined to accomplish the will of the Father. As Jesus died, he said Into thy hands I commend my Spirit, so he knew where he was going, he was going to the Father ultimately.
We know Jesus fleshly body died, it was buried in a tomb. So was his body reborn, you betcha, what was the agent of that rebirth, no doubt the Holy Spirit caused his body to live again.
Okay, did Jesus Spirit die? Well, let’s ask another question, when we die does our spirit die or just our body? The way I understand it, the spirit is made to live forever, especially the born again Spirit.
Jesus was aware of whatever happened in the grave, and yeah if he faced Satan, preached to those in prison while he was there, and led captivity captive, my guess is that Jesus Spirit never died.
Jesus is the first born of many brethern (and sistern) and he tasted death for every man. He had to be aware of what was happening, so I feel that awareness was his Spirit, not his fleshly body which presumably lay in the tomb. Jesus flesh was born again, but it was not the kind of flesh we think of as normal. Flesh that passes through closed doors is which even those who knew him went unrecognized.
Kind of my standard line, if we can’t absolutely know for sure and have scripture line for line, let’s go for simplicity and grace for others. I don’t think anyone would argue that Jesus came and fulfilled the requirements of the Father?
I don’t think anyone doubts the power of his name to save to the uttermost? And if He does save us, then does it matter how HE died or how HE was resurrected, as long as it works and was according to the Father’s will?
[Reply]
Bruce,
I don’t suppose that you’ve read a lot of my articles on Jesus becoming sin. I refer you to those for the balance of your comment.
I also leave you with this: “If it doesn’t matter how he died or how he was resurrected, then why on earth did Paul say that he wrote his letters so that we could understand his intelligence in the mystery of Christ?” Over the course of this blog, I’ve run into lots of people who ask, “Why spend time on an area of the Word that is divisive? Why don’t you stick to those things that virtually all Christians agree on and leave the other stuff alone?” That position, which impliedly says that we don’t need to understand certain portions of God’s revelation or that we may choose to elevate certain portions of scripture over others, comes off as pretty cocky to me. Who are we to say to the Lord that a portion of the facts of redemption aren’t really that important for us to know and understand?
[Reply]
I don’t suppose that you’ve read a lot of my articles on Jesus becoming sin.
No Peter, but I have read my bible quite a bit.
I refer you to those for the balance of your comment.
Hmmm, I thought the idea of a blog is to have a conversation?
I don’t think anyone doubts the power of his name to save to the uttermost? And if He does save us, then does it matter how HE died or how HE was resurrected, as long as it works and was according to the Father’s will?
So here is my comment above restated:
If Jesus died and was resurrected according to the Father’s will, and Jesus is able to save through the power of his name, then do the particulars of how he died or how he was resurrected matter as long as God himself accepted what transpired?
I didn’t comment on the men in question because that could divide.
The definition of mystery itself , means something unknown that we can be okay with as long as it’s God’s intention it remains a mystery until such time as it is fully revealed. It probably is unimportant to know if Jesus died spiritually or just physically to get a man saved from his sin.
Is that cocky?
Nor do I claim as the video presenter does that what they shared was heresy.
These ministers are men and prone to making mistakes as all men do, what they said is unorthodox for sure, heresy, nah, I doubt it. For if I were without sin, shucks, I just might chuck a few rocks myself.
[Reply]
Bruce, in Ephesians 3.4, Paul writes that he wrote his letter so that we could understand his intelligence into the mystery [or secret] of Christ. The mystery isn’t a secret anymore.
With regard to comments, I don’t mind them at all, but I’d rather they be specific to the post.
[Reply]
Ah, read on down a few lines: Paul defines the mystery you are alluding to here:
Eph. 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel, the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
This stuff isn’t rocket science, anyone can grasp these things. If we make it so folks have to get theological training to discuss the things of God, then that narrow road, just keeps getting narrower. Who then can be saved?
If these men missed it then they will stand accountable to God for what they shared. If I miss it in some areas the same is true. It’s good we serve a loving and forgiving Abba Father.
[Reply]
Giacinto Butindaro, is the minister linked to the website you shared above.
http://www.the-new-way.org/wwbat/38_our_position_on_various_things.html
Peter, I went over to the website you mentioned, the fellow over there and his site seems to be fairly well developed. They are not novices to the things of God. They appear to be fairly strict pentecostal / charismatic types.
A link to what they believe:
http://www.the-new-way.org/wwbat/index.html
Does God want us battling each other or the enemy of our souls? A question to ponder.
And as Paul tells Timothy in 2Tim.4:2,3
Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke, and encourage with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine.
It goes on to say: Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5 But you keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.
Peter, thanks for providing this avenue for interesting dialogue. May God bless you and the things he’s called you to do, bro…. bd
[Reply]
Peter,
Hebrews 1:5 says, “Today I have become your Father…” What day was that? Of course it was the same day your earthly father became your father, inception. We know Jesus was conscious of the fact he would die, he knew he was slain from the foundation of the world, he was to be the sacrifice Lamb. God knows the end from the beginning, he knew his Son Jesus would meet the claims of the law, a blood sacrifice, which I propose is theologically met in the physical shedding of blood and the spirit being rendered up to God which Jesus actually proclaimed on the cross.
Hebrews 2:9 says, ” ….Jesus tasted death for everyone.” What it doesn’t say is how he did it, it simply does not say. Implying anything more than what is written, wouldn’t that be adding to or taking from the words of scripture…..?
Colossians 2:13 says, “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins….” This passage mirrors other verses especially on describing the new birth experience: Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Again, no clue of Jesus dying spiritually, silence on that point.
Hebrews 9:11 says, “But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.” Peter, in this couple of verses we learn that by Jesus own blood he obtained eternal redemption for us. I ask a simple question, is blood of the physical body or is it of the spirit? It’s pretty plain that if Jesus blood had not been spilled he would not have died, that apparently is what God the Father required to rid the world of sin through faith in Jesus.
I’m glad you used Nicodemus and Jesus discussion over the requirements of God. That verse is some of the most plain teaching in the entire New Testament. It shows natural childbirth and the spiritual birth in close context. 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual rebirth was foreign to Nicodemus, but Jesus chided him for not knowing these things. He didn’t cut him any slack, telling Nick, “You people do not accept our testimony.” Ouch.
Later in the passage in John 3, Jesus tells Nicodemus in verse 21, ” But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly, that what he has done has been done through God.” Peter, show me plainly, through scripture, that Jesus died spiritually, not just physically, and I will believe. Bruce
[Reply]
Peter,
Hebrews 1:5 says, “Today I have become your Father…” What day was that? Of course it was the same day your earthly father became your father, inception. We know Jesus was conscious of the fact he would die, he knew he was slain from the foundation of the world, he was to be the sacrifice Lamb. God knows the end from the beginning, he knew his Son Jesus would meet the claims of the law, a blood sacrifice, which I propose is theologically met in the physical shedding of blood and the spirit being rendered up to God which Jesus actually proclaimed on the cross.
Hebrews 2:9 says, ” ….Jesus tasted death for everyone.” What it doesn’t say is how he did it, it simply does not say. Implying anything more than what is written, wouldn’t that be adding to or taking from the words of Jesus…..?
Colossians 2:13 says, “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins….” This passage mirrors other verses especially on describing the new birth experience: Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Again, no clue of Jesus dying spiritually, silence on that point.
Hebrews 9:11 says, “But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.” Peter, in this couple of verses we learn that by Jesus own blood he obtained eternal redemption for us. I ask a simple question, is blood of the physical body or is it of the spirit? It’s pretty plain that if Jesus blood had not been spilled he would not have died, that apparently is what God the Father required to rid the world of sin through faith in Jesus.
I’m glad you used Nicodemus and Jesus discussion over the requirements of God. That verse is some of the most plain teaching in the entire New Testament. It shows natural childbirth and the spiritual birth in close context. 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual rebirth was foreign to Nicodemus, but Jesus chided him for not knowing these things. He didn’t cut him any slack, telling Nick, “You people do not accept our testimony.” Ouch.
Later in the passage in John 3, Jesus tells Nicodemus in verse 21, ” But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly, that what he has done has been done through God.” Peter, show me plainly, through scripture, that Jesus died spiritually, not just physically, and I will believe. Bruce
[Reply]
In Matthew 10 we find these verses:
27What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
This verse shows that Satan is powerless to destroy much more than the body. That would leave the soul of man and the spirit of man and Jesus intact would it not?
Thanks Peter, I’ve enjoyed a few days talking to myself here!
[Reply]