migrate, buturo tells gays

Source: The Daily Monitor

August 29, 2007: Ethics Minister Dr James Nsaba Buturo advises homosexuals to emigrate, calling their acts "shameful, abominable and un-godly." Gay leader Victor Juliet Mukasa insists gays "have absolute rights." Inside Politics' Agness Nandutu crossed the two.

What is your view on the current debate on homosexuality?

Buturo

My view is that of the majority of Ugandans. All people who have participated in this debate are denouncing the act. What else do these gays want? The message has been clear that their acts are not accepted in our society. They are wasting their time to claim that they are advocating for their rights. We shall not allow them to mislead our young generation. Shame on them. Our laws are clear, homosexuality is illegal.

If God is against homosexuality, who are we to legislate for it. We would be bringing a curse on Uganda, God forbid. They have no place in our country. They should change to a normal way of life. They should know that they are not free to do whatever they want. Homosexuality is not part of our values. As government we shall do everything possible to help them change and those who don't want to change would be arrested. We shall not act under pressure. It's nonsense to say that their acts are natural.

Mukasa

The people who are debating against our feelings do not understand what we want. Even Buturo, a government minister who is supposed to uphold the constitution by protecting our human rights has joined the religious leaders to condemn us.

They are violating our rights by inciting the public to either harm us or hate us. We are also human beings. Buturo and his followers should know that we also belong to this society. They should also know that this is our way of living, which we cannot change. We ought to be listened to and we demand our basic human rights.

We want to be free and to have peace with the rest of the society. We are not raping or defiling anybody. We are not having sex with animals. Our nature is that we are only attracted to the people of the same sex as ours and we should be given freedom. We need to have the right of belonging.

Do gays have rights in the society?

Buturo

There are no rights for gays and lesbians in this country. Let them go anywhere else if they don't want to change to normal life. They have rights as Ugandans and human beings but not the right to be gay or lesbian. We pray that they accept Jesus so that they can discover that they are in the wrong. Either they change or the law catches up with them. If gays are demanding for rights, then rapists, defilers and those who sleep with animals should do the same.

Mukasa

We have absolute rights. Buturo should know that government signed the international declaration to respect every one's human rights. Our rights as gays ought to be respected. We have the right to speak and demonstrate. But we are being harassed by the media and government. We have a right of privacy but police are raiding our houses and arresting us without arrest warrants. The struggle continues.

We shall fight for our rights. I would rather be killed while struggling for dignity than live without dignity. That is the way we were created and no human being can change that. It's not our choice to be gays. If it were, we would not be suffering like this. We would have abandoned the act but it's natural. The public does not know what we want. They think we are demanding for the right to have sex.

We are already having sex with people of the same sex and with their consent. I have a partner and we love each other the way we are. So we are not asking for the right to have sex. What we want is the right of belonging. We are gays and we do not want people to look at us as criminals. We want the right to be allowed in schools the way we are. We want government to include us in the National Aids Policy.

Let the public respect us and let us live in peace. People and government are rejecting us because they think we don't conform to the traditional gender norms. One example is pastor (Grace) Kitaka. He tried very much to pretend to belong to society but he could not stand the test of time. His feelings eventually became public.

Many gays and lesbians are pretending to be in marriages because they want to belong in society. If we were left free, such things would not be happening. The fact remains; gays exist and will continue to exist.

How do you respond to views that Uganda and generally the world is caught between a rock and a hard place where by legislating against people's sexual lives and attacking gays, the government is infringing on their rights?

Buturo

Like I have said before gays have no right in society. No law in Uganda gives them rights. No body can give you a right to drive the world crazy. Those people are crazy. You cannot infringe on what does not exist. It's good that they have come out and we are going to deal with them like never before.

Mukasa

Buturo and his government are aware that they are infringing on our rights but they are pretending. Gays and lesbians have existed for decades. Nobody will silence us. We shall continue fighting for our rights.

Do you believe Bible teaching on homosexuality?

Buturo

Yes of course. I am a born again Christian. Homosexuality is a sin. If they are Christians, they should know that according to the Bible, they are sinners. God loves them and he wants them to change.

Mukasa

I am a Christian and therefore believe in the Bible. Those people who think we are sinners are misinterpreting the Bible for their own interests. God cannot create us the way we are and then call us sinners. I am a born again Christian but I do not want to call myself that because they are the people who say we are possessed by demons.

Is it true that people engage in homosexuality for money?

Buturo

Everybody knows that. These people are promoting this act here for money. But they will do it from anywhere else and not Uganda. There are countries that are funding these people to promote evil here but we shall not accept it. They would rather go and do it in those countries.

Mukasa

That is another mess. We are not gays or lesbians because we want money. If people were funding us, then we would be rich. I cannot do something because of the force of money. If I wanted money, I would get it because I am a banker and I was born in a rich family. I am not working because of discrimination.

Homosexuality is criminalised by law yet the police looked on as gays held a press conference openly, do you think the police failed in its responsibilities to prevent crime?

Buturo

The police cannot arrest those who claim they are gays. But if you are caught in the act, they have always arrested them. However, it's good that they have come out now. That would help us to catch up with them. We have now known that there is a useless group of people who have invaded our society and the law will deal with them. 99 per cent of Ugandans condemn this act. And we are determined to fight it out of our country. We appeal to the public to point out those they suspect or know to be gays.

Mukasa

I want the public to know that homosexuality is not a crime. We are not criminals because we are not raping or defiling anybody. We are having relationships with people who have the same feelings like us, people who are attracted to others of the same sex. That is not a crime. The penal code they are using is an imported law brought by colonialists. Buturo and others are blindly saying homosexuality is illegal and the police are harassing us for nothing.