Welcome to the Taking Children Seriously List
PLEASE read this message before you post to the List.
This message is sent to all new subscribers to the
Taking Children Seriously List.
Table of Contents
- Introduction to the List
- The TCS List Posting Guidelines
- Posting messages on the TCS List
- The List Server
- Other Lists which might be of interest
My name is Sarah Lawrence, and I edit and publish the
paper journal, Taking Children Seriously,
whose aim is to act as a forum for considered
discussions of issues which affect children. Our
particular interest is in non-coercive education, and
the sorts of questions we ask are:
- How does knowledge grow and how do children learn?
- What is wrong with the ways children are conventionally raised and
educated? How can we improve upon this?
- How can we provide an education which nurtures our children's
autonomy?
- How can we improve our relationships with our children?
- How can we identify and learn from our mistakes in child-rearing?
- What can we do about the harm we have caused?
- What areas of parenting behaviour commonly involve subtle or
hidden coercion and how can we recognise such behaviours in our own
parenting?
- How can children be empowered? Should they have the same rights as
other people? And why?
- Why is it important to take ourselves seriously too?
Taking
Children Seriously, the journal, is
published only quarterly. Conversely the Taking
Children Seriously List provides an immediate forum for
discussion, addressing issues as they arise in people's
minds. Thus it often helps subscribers solve practical
problems in their lives. Indeed, this is one of the
primary aims of the TCS List: the Taking Children
Seriously List is a forum for the discussion of TCS
child-rearing/education theory and practice, and for
the support of parents trying to make their
interactions with their children non-coercive.
First note that we use the term “theory”
broadly. We use it to describe much more than just
“scientific theory”, or
“epistemological theory”, say. See
http://www.TCS.ac/FAQ/FAQShortGlossary.html#Theory
for further information.
To find out what we mean by “consent” see
http://www.TCS.ac/FAQ/FAQShortGlossary.html#Consent
For the definition of “common preference” see
http://www.TCS.ac/FAQ/FAQShortGlossary.html#Common_preference.
Our definition of “coercion” makes precise the idea of being
compelled to act against one's own will. See
http://www.TCS.ac/FAQ/FAQShortGlossary.html#Coercion
http://www.TCS.ac/FAQ/FAQShortGlossary.html#Coerce
and
http://www.TCS.ac/FAQ/FAQShortGlossary.html#Coercive
for further information.
If you do not like the way we use these terms, please substitute
made-up words rather than changing the meanings. It is the
meaning that counts, not the word.
For further important TCS terminology, please read the
Short Glossary on our WWW site.
The List is moderated. However, not all messages are treated by
hand, so the appearance of a message on the List does not imply
the approval of the moderator(s).
Do not assume that the moderators will pick up your mistakes in
posting! There are times when there is effectively no moderation
at all, so please take care to ensure that you post in
accordance with these guidelines:
The Taking Children Seriously List is a forum for the
discussion of TCS theory and practice, and for the
support of parents trying to make their interactions
with their children non-coercive. It is not a forum
aiming to support all parents, and if you are hostile
to the idea of TCS, please try one of the many forums
which are supportive of more conventional parenting
ideas instead.
We are trying to retain a very friendly, supportive
feel on the List, while simultaneously seeking and
valuing criticism. We consider criticism a gift because
it is through criticism that one learns. We value
friendly if heated argument, and do not take criticism
as an attack but a sign that someone has spent some
effort thinking about the issue we are interested in. I
do hope you will see it in this very positive light
too. If you do not, then again, you might prefer to
subscribe to a different List. Some people are
initially disconcerted but then gradually begin to see
that our discussions are in fact very friendly indeed.
There is, in our culture, a strong taboo against
so-called “impoliteness” and against
criticising ideas about parenting in particular. This
taboo is harmful because it prevents criticism and is
associated with psychological strategies for
self-exculpation which are integral to most patterns of
coercion of children. When we go along with this
self-exculpation, we become implicated ourselves. On
this List, we value open discussion, provided
it's on-topic, so we do not welcome posts
whose purpose is to invoke this taboo.
Meta-discussion of any kind (discussion about the
discussion instead of about how children should be
treated) is off-topic and you may not try to use group
intimidation to silence posters or to shame them into
changing their posting styles. This “no meta
discussion” rule keeps the discussion of
substantive, relevant issues, flowing.
Another unusual feature of this List is that we take
consent and privacy very seriously. Please do not
violate privacy when posting. For example, if you want
to quote private email or email from another List, get
permission to quote it before you post, and state in
your post that you are posting it with the author's
permission. Do not quote anything from this List on any
other forum without getting permission from the poster.
Do not violate children's privacy either. In fact, even
if your children are happy for you to give personal
information about them on the List, please don't.
There are many reasons for this. Children often feel
angry or embarrassed later by things their parents have
written about them. I have heard from a number of
children whose parents have written about them
publicly, and they all strongly resent it. Moreover, in
a few cases, the children had not objected to
their parents writing about them at the time; it was
only later, when they were teenagers and young adults,
that they started feeling embarrassed and angry about
it. In another case, I am told that the person written
about felt very uncomfortable about it at the time, but
didn't feel able to tell the parent. Knowing that one's
behaviour is going to be subject to public discussion
(even if this contains only praise) can be extremely
burdensome.
Another very important reason is that writing about
your children can cause you to ‘objectify’
them in your mind. This can be a very damaging source
of coercion. For further details, see my article, Beware the
Curriculum Mentality.
TCS List posters use various devices to avoid even the
possibility that the List will end up as a forum in
which their children's minds are publicly dissected.
For instance, whenever possible, you can
hypotheticalise anything you want to say about your
children (or any other children) preferably so that the
children will be unable to recognise themselves in your
post.
Even when writing about yourself, consider phrasing your post in
a hypothetical form. This will make it much less likely that your
post will attract replies painfully picking apart your life. When
discussions become personal, it can be very unpleasant for the
person whose life is being discussed. Taking a little time and
effort to phrase your post in a hypothetical form is well worth
doing in order to avoid such unpleasantness. TCS List posters
have found that far from making the TCS List useless in terms of
helping people solve their problems, keeping discussions
depersonalised in fact facilitates much deeper and more helpful
discussion than would otherwise be possible.
Use hypothetical forms such as “Suppose
such-and-such were to happen...” or “I want
to raise an issue that I think many parents worry
about. How might a TCS parent deal with [such-and-such
an issue]?” For example, suppose your 8-year-old
daughter is being bullied by the other children at her
Judo class, and you want advice about this situation
from TCS-minded people. Even so, there is no need to
mention specifics. Almost certainly, you can
hypotheticalise it by posting something like
“Suppose 6-year-old Billy is being picked on by
the children at his swimming class...” and so on.
Even with the changed details, you are likely to get
helpful answers. But if everyone starts going off at a
tangent about the changed details – the swimming
pool, or the age or sex of the child – simply
post a further message saying “OK, well suppose
it was an Art class instead of a swimming lesson. What
would you say about that?” Or “Well imagine
that it was a ten-year-old instead. – wouldn't
that change things in such-and-such a way?” And so on.
If it seems too difficult to you to change the details,
consider sending your proposed post to the List owner
at tcs-request@listserv.aol.com asking that it
be hypotheticalised and/or posted annonymously for you.
The TCS List has a means of posting anonymously (see
below) but even if you are posting anonymously, it is
still worth changing as many details as you
can, for the reasons mentioned. The main issue is not
whether or not the child minds but the risk of coercive
objectification in the mind of the parent and child.
That is a risk whether or not the problem or comment is
posted anonymously. The last thing we want is for the
TCS List to become a place where particular children
get discussed over their heads.
So when posting, whether asking a question, making a
comment, or replying to another post, please
strive to hypotheticalise your post, and try not to use
personalised forms of words even if the person to whom
you are replying has done. If someone has asked a
question, don't start writing “Does your
child...?” or “You...” Instead, use
hypothetical forms of words, such as
“If...then” or “If...I
would...” or “If such-and-such were to
happen, the parent might want to consider...”
When in doubt, depersonalise.
Sometimes it appears that posts asking for help are not
answered. In fact, many of us prefer to offer any
suggestions we may have off the List, in private email,
because we do not like talking about children in public
for the reasons given above.
In order to maintain the high quality of discussion
subscribers expect on this List, please bear in mind
when posting that quality is better than quantity, and
that it is best to post one interesting, subtle message
per day than half a million messages lacking
thoughtful content. 8-)
- Do not violate privacy in any way. See above for more
information.
- Please do not send off-topic messages to the List.
- No meta discussion. That is to say, no
discussion about the discussions –
- about posting styles
- about what should be considered on-topic for this List
- about the attributes of a particular poster
- about the attributes of a particular discussion on the List
and the like –
instead of about on-topic matters.
- If a post makes you angry, please address the issues or arguments
rather than resorting to irrelevant personal attacks.
- No religious proselytising.
- On no account solicit personal information.
- Do not send spams, chain letters, virus warnings,
etc., to the List. If someone sends you a
“warning” or a “special offer”
you are not sure about, check the urban legends
newsgroups/FAQs rather than posting to the TCS List.
- Please do not send “fluff” posts to
the List.
-
Please do not send one-line,
“content-less” posts such as “I
agree” to the List.
-
Please do not send administrative messages such as
“Unsubscribe me” to the List.
- Sending personal messages to the List can be very
embarrassing, so check the To: line before sending any
reply. Is it a personal message or do you intend it to go to
the whole List? Might it be more appropriate to send your
message to the poster whose message you are answering?
- In general, threads (including discussions on the same subject with
a different Subject: line) should be short. They should not be
repetitive and they should not go round in circles. Insistently
repetitive threads drown out other more subtle threads so please try to
ensure that your reply is making a point which others would recognise
as new to the thread rather than merely repeating a point which has just
been made. If a thread is getting nowhere, instead of replying
line-by-line to another post, write a self-contained post which does
not refer to previous posts in the thread, and give it an
appropriate Subject: line.
- Ensure that the subject of your messages is reflected in the
Subject: line of your posts. Change the Subject: line if
necessary.
- Please do not quote more than is necessary for
context. (Quoting too little can also be a problem!)
- If possible, include the full reference to the post to which
you are replying (for example: "On [date] at [time], [name
and email address] wrote:").
-
Please use the standard internet quoting notation, namely,
set up your software to ad ">"s down the left hand side of
quoted text, then leave some white space, then write your
reply beneath that.
- Please do not quote the entire header of messages you reply to,
because if you quote the “Reply-To” or
“Sender”, then the List server thinks it is a
bounce, and sends it to the List owner as an error.
- Please send re-post requests to the individual poster, not
the whole List.
- Please check that the width of your posts does not exceed that of this
Welcome message in the form you receive it from AOL. (If you think in
characters, it is about 70 characters wide.) Some people do not have wide
screens.
- Large signatures annoy people unless they are interesting, germane and
changed regularly (the sigs, that is).
- To make posts easier to read, add white space. If you write more than
about four lines without a gap, consider breaking the text into two or more
paragraphs. It'll encourage subscribers to read what you have written.
- Please avoid sending attachments (see below), MIME or HTML
format messages or styled text to this List. All attachments
are automatically discarded so such messages will never reach
the List subscribers. See below.
If you use Netscape Messenger or Microsoft Outlook or
Exchange to send email, you may be unaware that your
program is automatically sending annoying attachments
whenever you send a message. This feature has to be
turned off. If you have not turned it off, please do
so. Such attachments contain absolutely unnecessary
duplicate messages in HTML coding. We do not accept
messages with these attachments, so please follow the
instructions below to turn off this feature of your
email program or switch to an email program that does
not send attachments unless you tell it to.
To stop Netscape Messenger from
sending a duplicate message in HTML coding at the end
of your normal message, go into Edit, choose
Preferences, then choose Mail and Newsgroups. Click on
the +, then from the resulting List choose Formatting.
You'll see two possibilities near the top:
“use HTML editor to compose
messages” or “use plain text
editor to compose messages.” Be sure to
choose the plain text editor. You might also check the
second option below that: “convert the
message into plain text.”
Also, go into Identity (also under Mail and Newsgroups)
and be sure that the bottom option (“Attach
my personal card to messages as a vCard”) is
unselected.
To stop Microsoft Outlook Express from
sending its version of an HTML attachment, please
do the following:
Look under Tools, Options, Send, Mail Sending Format:
check the box that says “Plain
Text” (instead of
“html”).
If you are using Outlook 2000, go to Tools/Options,
find the tab labelled “Mail Format”, the
section labelled “Message Format”, and the
select box labeled: “Send in this message
format:”. Check the box that says
“Plain Text” (instead of
“html”).
To stop Microsoft Exchange from
appending a WINMAIL.DAT binary attachment, go to the
Microsoft site and consult the Knowledge Base article
entitled “Preventing WINMAIL.DAT Sent to Internet
Users.”
The List welcomes posts from any source, irrespective
of whether the address posted from is subscribed to it or not.
If you wish to know more about TCS before posting, see the
“Frequently-Asked Questions”
pages on our WWW site at
http://www.eeng.dcu.ie/~tcs/index.html
or retrieve the List archives
(see below for details).
If you would like to introduce yourself to the List,
please feel free to do so, taking the TCS List Posting
Guidelines into account. Be sure to say where you
heard about TCS.
If you have a question or indeed if you are bursting with questions,
do please post your questions on the
List.
It doesn't matter if your questions are “basic”
or “ill-informed”.
Just mention the fact that you are a new subscriber, and ask away.
The more questions we get, the more likely each of
those issues will be addressed.
If you wish to ask a question or otherwise contribute
to the List, first read the TCS List Posting
Guidelines above, then send your message to TCS@listserv.aol.com.
Send your post to anonymous@TCS.ac and it will be forwarded to
TCS@listserv.aol.com after stripping all the original headers
that could cause you to be identified. Only the subject line will
be retained.
-
Consider whether you really want to post anonymously. Note
that in many cases, TCS people prefer to reply to posts
privately, and when you use the anonymiser, no one can reply
to you privately. Some posters would say something privately
that they wouldn't dream of saying publicly on the List, and
many people feel that the most helpful replies to their posts
have been the private ones. Take that into account when
deciding whether or not to use the anonymiser.
-
When using the anonymiser, please sign the post with a name so
that people replying can attribute the quote, and so that if
you want to reply to a reply to your anonymous post, you can
make it clear that you are the same person as in your first
post.
-
When posting anonymously, be especially careful not to
violate the TCS List Posting Guidelines (note that
there is a copy of these guidelines available at
http://www.TCS.ac/List/tcswelcome.html#postingguidelines).
When you post using the anonymiser, we have no way of
communicating with you to ask you to correct any
problem. Please note that in the event that your post
violates the TCS List Posting Guidelines, it will be
discarded and never appear on the List.
-
If you don't want to identify yourself you will have to
exercise some caution: including your usual signature in the
body of the message could give you away, and be aware that you
may give yourself away through your posting style, word
choices, specific references, spellings, expressions, and even
by the way in which you format a post.
-
May I stress that even if you are using the
anonymiser, it is still worth hypotheticalising your
post. That is to say, it is generally a bad idea to
give personal information about your children (or any
children), but if you want to write about your
children, please try to change as many details as you
can so that they won't recognise themselves in your
post. Instead of saying “such-and-such happened;
now what?!”, say “If such-and-such were to
happen, what do you think a TCS parent should
do?” Or “What would you suggest if
...” If an incident happened at a swimming pool,
make it a Judo class. If your child is a 7 year old
girl, write about a 9 year old boy. If replies get the
wrong end of the stick as a result of the changed
details, simply send another post saying “OK, but
what if is wasn't x but y instead? Wouldn't that change
things a bit?” If you are using the anonymiser,
you could even write the new post as if you are a
different person exploring issues raised by your first
post. There is nothing wrong with lying in this way.
The List is handled by automatic mailing List
software. You control your subscription by mailing
commands to the List server at <listserv@listserv.aol.com>.
Note that this is not the same as the address
used for posting messages. Please take care to send
List server commands to the List server, not to the
mailing List.
Send a message to
<listserv@listserv.aol.com>
saying
subscribe TCS Your-first-name Your-last-name
To unsubscribe, send a message to
<listserv@listserv.aol.com>
sa
ying
unsubscribe TCS
This Welcome message is updated occasionally. To get the current
version, send a message to
<listserv@listserv.aol.com>
saying
get tcs welcome
or return to this web page.
To get the poster's address in the body of the message send a
message to
<listserv@listserv.aol.com>
saying
set TCS dual
If you want to temporarily stop receiving TCS List messages
(for instance, if you are going on vacation)
send a message to
<listserv@listserv.aol.com>
saying
set TCS nomail
This action will not store up messages for you
to receive later, when you resume getting mail. To get messages you
have missed, get the archives.
When you want to resume getting messages, send
set TCS mail
to
<listserv@listserv.aol.com>
Instead of receiving each individual post as a separate message,
you can choose to receive a single large message containing
several posts. Usually there will be a daily digest containing
the day's posts, but that may vary if List traffic is unusually
light or heavy. Note: these automatically-created digests can be
very large files.
To receive unabridged digests, send
set TCS digest
to
<listserv@listserv.aol
.com>.
To switch back to receiving individual posts,
use
set TCS nodigest
If you find the volume of the List too much, or you are only
interested in posts of certain topics, you might like to set
yourself to INDEX. To do this send:
set TCS index
to <listserv@listserv.aol
.com>.
You will then receive indexes of just the
short headers instead of the full posts, that is, sender,
date, subject line. They come bundled together daily, in
single or multiple posts depending on the List volume.
Here is what one of the indexes looked like:
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 00:02:45 -0500
Reply-To: TCS-Search-request@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Sender: listserv@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
From: Automatic digest processor
Subject: TCS Index - 11 Feb 2000 to 12 Feb 2000 (#2000-44)
To: Recipients of TCS indexes
Index Date Size Poster and subject
----- ---- ---- ------------------
007794 02/11 119 From: Sarah Lawrence
Subject: Ginny wants to go to school
007796 02/12 55 From: David Deutsch
Subject: Property rights and the Titanic (Was: Whose ball is
it?)
007800 02/12 101 From: MomReil@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Common Preference Finding Rule
007805 02/12 21 From: Nicholina O'Donnell
Subject: Re: Whose ball is it? (Was: balls and strife)
007808 02/12 47 From: Gil Milbauer
Subject: Re: on limits and boudaries was Re: TCS/LLL
007809 02/11 22 From: Woty TheWondernerd
Subject: Re: tcs & homophobia
007810 02/12 6 From: Nel
Subject: Re: Whose ball is it? (Was: balls and strife)
007811 02/12 78 From: T. Harms
Subject: theory of volition
The sizes shown are the number of lines in the messages, not
counting mail headers.
To order the messages you are interested in, simply reply to this
message and include the original text, just as when you are
replying to a normal message and want to quote what your
correspondent said. Before sending the message, delete the lines
corresponding to the items you are not interested in, and make
sure your reply is going to
TCS-Search-request@LISTSERV.AOL.COM, NOT to
TCS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM.
The List server provides several other subscription options.
For information about the available commands, send
info refcard
to
<listserv@listserv.aol
.com>.
If your address produces bounce errors, you may receive an
automatic message saying that you have been unsubscribed or set
to “nomail” by
the Listowner. (This message might not reach you,
for the same reason that List message bounced.) In any case, you
will then receive no further messages unless you take some
action. If this happens to you, it is nothing personal, and you
are welcome on the List. Just resubscribe
(if you have been unsubscribed), or send a message to the Listserver
to change your setting back to the
“mail” setting
(if the Listserver has set you to “nomail”).
Contributions sent to this List are automatically archived.
You can get a List of the available archive files by sending
index TCS
to <listserv@listserv.aol.com>.
You will be sent a List of the automatic logs (archives) available.
For example:
*
* Archive files for the TCS list at LISTSERV.AOL.COM
* (weekly logs)
*
* filename filetype GET PUT size (bytes) date time
* -------- -------- --- --- ------------ ---------- --------
TCS LOG0001A LOG OWN 215,443 2000-01-07 22:05:09
TCS LOG0001B LOG OWN 228,596 2000-01-14 22:17:35
TCS LOG0001C LOG OWN 615,828 2000-01-22 00:15:48
TCS LOG0001D LOG OWN 569,854 2000-01-29 00:49:02
TCS LOG0001E LOG OWN 251,954 2000-02-01 00:39:05
TCS LOG0002A LOG OWN 432,020 2000-02-08 00:29:31
TCS LOG0002B LOG OWN 495,985 2000-02-14 23:55:49
TCS LOG0002C LOG OWN 355,449 2000-02-21 22:36:24
TCS LOG0002D LOG OWN 184,806 2000-02-29 00:22:56
TCS LOG0002E LOG OWN 23,453 2000-03-01 00:48:15
TCS LOG0003A LOG OWN 161,898 2000-03-08 00:29:41
TCS LOG0003B LOG OWN 388,730 2000-03-15 00:44:33
TCS LOG0003C LOG OWN 735,439 2000-03-22 00:54:52
TCS LOG0003D LOG OWN 629,540 2000-03-28 23:13:28
TCS LOG0003E LOG OWN 147,569 2000-04-01 00:40:59
TCS LOG0004A LOG OWN 154,269 2000-04-07 21:44:06
TCS LOG0004B LOG OWN 139,131 2000-04-14 23:25:27
TCS LOG0004C LOG OWN 144,940 2000-04-21 22:58:06
TCS LOG0004D LOG OWN 277,663 2000-04-28 21:55:53
TCS LOG0004E LOG OWN 49,913 2000-04-30 16:01:39
TCS LOG0005A LOG OWN 279,316 2000-05-07 23:55:30
TCS LOG0005B LOG OWN 196,046 2000-05-14 19:36:38
TCS LOG0005C LOG OWN 243,331 2000-05-21 22:05:43
TCS LOG0005D LOG OWN 284,532 2000-05-28 23:01:37
TCS LOG0005E LOG OWN 99,618 2000-05-31 23:40:06
TCS LOG0006A LOG OWN 517,857 2000-06-07 23:48:00
TCS LOG0006B LOG OWN 570,994 2000-06-14 21:08:05
TCS LOG0006C LOG OWN 345,139 2000-06-21 23:59:24
TCS LOG0006D LOG OWN 238,621 2000-06-28 21:18:37
TCS LOG0006E LOG OWN 17,494 2000-06-30 20:56:12
TCS LOG0007A LOG OWN 193,032 2000-07-07 23:42:31
TCS LOG0007B LOG OWN 400,528 2000-07-14 20:14:53
TCS LOG0007C LOG OWN 306,958 2000-07-21 23:47:17
TCS LOG0007D LOG OWN 342,663 2000-07-28 22:54:19
TCS LOG0007E LOG OWN 78,759 2000-07-31 23:49:15
TCS LOG0008A LOG OWN 147,921 2000-08-07 21:34:42
TCS LOG0008B LOG OWN 63,421 2000-08-14 23:54:39
TCS LOG0008C LOG OWN 610,935 2000-08-21 23:43:21
TCS LOG0008D LOG OWN 336,578 2000-08-28 22:00:39
TCS LOG0008E LOG OWN 215,988 2000-08-31 23:46:10
You can then order these files by sending
get tcs logyymmx
to <listserv@listserv.aol.com>.
For example, to get the last archive listed above, the
third archive of December 1999, you would send:
get tcs log9912C
Warning: The logs can be large.
Send a message to saying:
search your-search-string in TCS
Example:
To search for posts mentioning “nappies” you would send:
search nappies in TCS
You can also restrict your search by date, sender, or other
criteria. For example,
search your-search-string in TCS since 99/12/01
or
search your-search-string in TCS where sender contains Sarah
(For more information about the appropriate syntax, send
info database
to the List
server.)
The List server will respond with an index of the postings
matching your criteria and instructions on how to use the GETPost
command to retrieve the posts you want.
If you have sent a search for “Karl Popper”
for example, you will then receive a message saying
something like this:
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:15:26 -0500
From: "L-Soft List server at America Online (1.8d)"
<LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM>
Subject: Output of your job "search"
> search Karl Popper in TCS
-> 17 matches.
Item # Date Time Recs Subject
------ ---- ---- ---- -------
000182 99/01/07 17:05 63 From the List owner
000394 99/01/12 05:40 44 Center of the Universe
002589 99/06/03 20:15 93 Re: intuition etc(was New Member With Questions
002591 99/06/03 17:19 152 Re: intuition etc(was New Member With Questions
002600 99/06/04 09:51 60 Re: intuition and reason
002665 99/06/07 10:18 43 Re: intuition and reason
002666 99/06/07 07:56 127 Re: Magical Child
003454 99/06/24 12:19 40 Re: Evolutionary Rationality (was: Kittens again)
003575 99/06/28 20:20 78 Re: <no subject>
003751 99/07/04 11:59 60 Is "how to refute TCS" a good question?
003763 99/07/04 19:05 103 Re: Is "how to refute TCS" a good
question?
003768 99/07/04 20:21 77 Re: Is "how to refute TCS" a good
question?
004196 99/08/03 08:39 41 Best proof? (was Re: Help)
004197 99/08/03 11:44 78 Re: Best proof? (was Re: Help)
004436 99/08/15 09:01 134 Re: value-based facts (was Titles)
004968 99/09/19 08:23 124 Rationality
005421 99/10/17 03:13 52 Re: Questions
To order a copy of these postings, send the following command:
GETPOST TCS 182 394 2589 2591 2600 2665-2666 3454 3575 3751 3763 3768
4196-4197 4436 4968 5421
>>> Item #182 (7 Jan 1999 17:05) - From the List owner
"We are fallible, and prone to error; but we can learn from
our mistakes." -- Karl Popper
^^^^ ^^^^^^
>>> Item #394 (12 Jan 1999 05:40) - Center of the Universe
quotations on point. Here's one from the demi-god
Popper. I thought it was worth sharing anyway, if only
^^^^^^
because I think Sir Karl said it better than I did:
^^^^
***************
-- Karl R. Popper, _Conjectures & Refutations_ (Ch.7-5, p.181)
^^^^ ^^^^^^
>>> Item #2589 (3 Jun 1999 20:15) - Re: intuition etc(was New
Member With
>>>Questions
so, and as private knowledge, intuition is not open to criticism in the way
that objective knowledge is. Karl Popper's book, "Objective
Knowledge" has
^^^^ ^^^^^^
often been refered to on this List, and it is a good, but not easy to read,
>>> Item #2591 (3 Jun 1999 17:19) - Re: intuition etc(was New
Member With
>>>Questions
There is a particular paragraph in Bryan McGee's book... _karl
^^^^
popper_, on page 64...
^^^^^^
***************
_In Search of a Better World: Lectures and Essays from Thirty
Years_, Karl Popper...
^^^^ ^^^^^^
>>> Item #2600 (4 Jun 1999 09:51) - Re: intuition and reason
FWIW, I agree with Karl Popper that this makes life rather exciting -- An
^^^^ ^^^^^^
Unended Quest -- as he put it.
>>> Item #2665 (7 Jun 1999 10:18) - Re: intuition and reason
And I agree with Ingrid and Janet and Bob and Karl Popper and Rane and
^^^^ ^^^^^^
Racheli on the above as well. :-)
>>> Item #2666 (7 Jun 1999 07:56) - Re: Magical Child
problem solving under adult guidance or in collaboration with more
capable peers.' This is what Karl Popper is talking about through
^^^^ ^^^^^^
critical reasoning with others and the self.
***************
I came to TCS via Reggio Emilia. Prior to Reggio Emilia, I had
some problems with behaviorism... to me, Karl Popper, is the
^^^^ ^^^^^^
combination that Reggio Emilia came up with applying various
theorists to their work with children. Henry Perkinson writes of
Karl Popper's theories in education.
^^^^ ^^^^^^
>>> Item #3454 (24 Jun 1999 12:19) - Re: Evolutionary
Rationality (was:
>>>Kittens again)
It's a term from Karl Popper (in fact, the title of one of his books,
^^^^ ^^^^^^
_Objective Knowledge_), as for defining it, hmmm, here's a passage from OK
>>> Item #3575 (28 Jun 1999 20:20) - Re: <no subject>
The best views I've seen on this from the TCS position are those supported by
Karl Popper, especially in his book, "Objective Knowledge."
The basic idea
^^^^ ^^^^^^
is that knowledge cannot be transferred from one brain to another like a
>>> Item #3751 (4 Jul 1999 11:59) - Is "how to refute
TCS" a good question?
According to Karl Popper, for a theory to be "scientific" (as
opposed
^^^^ ^^^^^^
to, let's say, religious beliefs, and many other belief systems), it needs
***************
what type of a system it is (or at least aims to be): A scientific one, or
a faith-based one, at least according to Karl Popper's philosophy.
^^^^ ^^^^^^
***************
might have some objections to these attitudes (?)
But since according to Popperian theories (which TCS advocates) this
^^^^^^
is a requirement that all scientific/rational theories should abide
>>> Item #3763 (4 Jul 1999 19:05) - Re: Is "how to refute
TCS" a good
>>>question?
>According to Karl Popper, for a theory to be "scientific"
(as opposed
^^^^ ^^^^^^
>to, let's say, religious beliefs, and many other belief systems), it
needs
***************
>or
>a faith-based one, at least according to Karl Popper's philosophy.
^^^^ ^^^^^^
***************
Note that Popper's philosophy also can't be falsified in the way that a
^^^^^^
theory within science could. Does that make it "faith-based?"
After reading
Popper, I don't think it is.
^^^^^^
***************
>might have some objections to these attitudes (?)
>But since according to Popperian theories (which TCS advocates) this
^^^^^^
>is a requirement that all scientific/rational theories should abide
>>> Item #3768 (4 Jul 1999 20:21) - Re: Is "how to refute
TCS" a good
>>>question?
>
> According to Karl Popper, for a theory to be "scientific"
(as opposed
^^^^ ^^^^^^
> to, let's say, religious beliefs, and many other belief systems), it
[...]
(not necessarily associated with TCS despite the names)
There are many Lists worth reading. For example:
-
The Autonomy-Respecting Relationships
List
About the
wider implications of TCS. List Owner: Sarah Lawrence,
England
To subscribe send a blank message to
Autonomy-Respecting-Relationships-subscribe@egroups.com
-
TCSBabiesToddlers List
List Owner: Annette Abma, Canada
To subscribe, send a blank message to
TCSBabiesToddlers-subscribe@egroups.com
-
TCSPreschoolers List
List Owner: Debra Kattler, USA
To subscribe, send a blank message to
TCSPreschoolers-subscribe@egroups.com
-
TCSHumour List
List Owner: Sarah Lawrence,
England
You may not find it funny but if you want to
risk it, send a blank message to
TCSHumour-subscribe@egroups.com
-
TCS-Autonomous-Ed
List Owner: Jan Fortune-Wood, England
To subscribe send a blank message to TCS-Autonomous-Ed-subscribe@egroups.com
-
Common-Preference-Parenting
List
List Owner: Annette Abma, Canada
To subscribe send a blank message to Common-Preference-Parenting-subscribe@egroups.com
-
HowtoGrowTCS
List Owner, Francine Lucidon, USA
To subscribe send a blank message to HowtoGrowTCS-subscribe@egroups.com
-
The Fabric of Reality List
List Owner: Sarah Lawrence, England
To subscribe send a blank message to
Fabric-of-Reality-subscribe@egroups.com
-
TCSkids
List Owner: Lulie Taylor,
England. N.B. For TCS children only.
TCSkids-subscribe@egroups.com
If you know of a List that TCS folks might find
interesting, please send me the details at
tcs-request@listserv.aol.com.
Last modified September 14, 2000
by Sarah Lawrence.
Copyright © 1997-2000 Taking Children Seriously
Top
| Home
| FAQ
| Journal
| Speakers
| List
| Articles
| Glossary
| Books
| Chat
| Links
| Search