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Interesting!

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Posted by: PHANTOM071494
Hmm.. Gondorians in Lord of the Rings. One of the three major tribes of ancient greece were the Dorians which were the ancestors of the Spartans (the ones from Sparta of course).
Very interesting... while the actual symbolic connection is somewhat muddled (we have no clue what the link between the Forerunner and the Spartans entails, but it's clear that there seems to be one), I have to agree that it's an interesting connection. When I get a chance I'll update the OP to include this tidbit. Thanks!


Posted by: BlueSkyfish
I like the idea that precursors are the flood, rather than was beaten by the flood. I think they willingly became the flood to expand their knowledge further. If they were anything like humans are today, with an never ending thirst for knowledge, if you got the option to hook your brain up to the ultimate complete knowledge of everything everyone knew, would you decline? and after that connection has first been made you will be changed forever. After getting all that knowledge, all previous values are likely gone. they don't care about the physical body anymore, what is practical is what is used. Emotions will be put aside, there will only be the average of the emotions of all those parts that shaped the hive mind about any one situation. I wonder though, if flood would continue exploring when it had taken all the knowledge it could find, and wither it would mine for more bodies by letting species live.
Ahh, this is something new. Many times people have said that the Precursor became the Flood for power or for self-perfection, but you suggest that they would have become the Flood solely to obtain more information and to exist as a collective where that information could be instantly distributed. Interesting thoughts... it seems to me to be plausible, and there's not really anything but morals saying that it shouldn't be done.


Posted by: CoolCJ24
A very extensive theory! I read all of it, and the first thread. I think it's very possible actually - it does make more sense. But something makes me want to believe there's still some Precursors left out there in the Halo Universe.
Very true- something always makes me want to believe that some Precursor had to escape, which makes me believe that the Forerunner theory that correlates so well with The Lord of the Rings is possible. Although we have no idea if any Forerunner survived either....

On the subject of Precursors, I have a theory about Sandbox and Sandtrap. It's my belief that they are both Precursor structures, guarded by Forerunner towers. I think it's possible that the Forerunners greatly respected the Precursors and subsequently, after finding these Precursor structures, swore to protect them. Hence, we have towers with powerful Beam Cannons.

My evidence for this? Easy. The inner Precursor structures are much different to Forerunner buildings - they are made of what must be an extremely durable rock (to last way over 100,000 years) and differ in shape considerably. The outer structures look very Forerunner, being made of that same black metal alloy and with a correct shape. Also, these towers look very much like the Forerunner "Guardian" boss that was going to be a Campaign level.
A Precursor outpost protected by the Forerunner? I suppose it's possible, but it could also be an early Forerunner outpost that the Forerunner fortified after the war actually started. If the Forerunner really were an offshoot of the Precursor, the early Forerunner might have been skilled enough to have constructed something like that, but they gradually lost the ability to (much like the new Gondorians versus the latter-day Gondorians in The Lord of the Rings. The latter-day Gondorians had great power and skill compared to the rest of the peoples in Middle-Earth, but absolutely nothing compared to the skill they had when they arrived). Or it could even have just been a stone structure that the Forerunner made because they didn't have the resources to create any monuments in metal towards the end of the war because all the metal was going to ship production. Who knows?

How does a supposedly "organic" being attack a digital and highly advanced program? It can't. There's only one answer.

The Gravemind is an AI. Therefore he has the digital compatibility to "attack" Cortana and corrupt her.
Well that's just the thing: if I'm right and the Gravemind is actually an AI, he would be an organic AI. He would have the capacity and prowess of an AI construct, which is how he would be able to control so many Flood at once and have the thinking power that he does, but he would not be mechanical in any way.


Posted by: Icy Dark Moon 13
you asked how the flood could have lost all that knowledge, right? simply: the rings have been lighted all at once several thousands of years ago ;)
While that's true, we don't know if a Gravemind survived that event. We know that there was one at Installation 05 that was there at least since 2552, and if he dates back to that time period he would still contain all of that information (and he does claim several times to hail from before the rings were lit). We can't just say "the Flood lost the information when the rings were lit", because it's possible that more than one Gravemind can exist at once, and one of the backups (the Installation 05 Gravemind) lived and retained all of the information they took. Or the Installation 05 Gravemind could be the original.


Posted by: hal0man88
On the part of your theory about Grave Mind and how it came to being. Again, very strong connection with the use of the word "GraveMind" It makes sense. I find it funny to think of Gravemind as a central Archive of information used by the Precursers. But it would make sense that the Forrunners learned from the Precursers mistakes and used machines instead to store this data. This to proved to be a mistake as the Gravemind "influenced" Mediciant Bias into helping the Flood. The Gravemind than is the antithesis of the Forrunners Library divice which we asume is used to store the data of all sentient life in the Galixy enabling the Halo's to kill everyone.
I don't know if the Forerunner would ever have had contact with the Precursor to be warned not to attempt using life-forms as AI, but it seems like (in this case) it would have been a clash of a machine-using society against that of a life-using society: the Flood v. The Forerunner. And in this case, who won? Without a final, definitive closing to the Halo saga that shows undeniably that the Flood have been destroyed, we may never know if the Forerunner's sacrifice was worth it.


Posted by: PHANTOM071494
I haven't ever seen the first thread since im not on the H3 forum all that much. I will be excited to see more information added onto this theory. I am glad i decided to go to the H3 forum since this is one of the best things i have read in a while.
I have to say, I think too many people don't come to this forum because they think there are no good threads. There are, there always have been. Sometimes you just have to look deeper than others to find them.


Posted by: PookaChu
That was really good. Write a fudgin book
Oddly enough, I am.

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Posted by: joey1859
But I'd have to disagree (as much as i hate to) on the Gravemind = AI thing. because look at installation 05. when the flood are first released there is no gravemind which explains their lack of organization. But as seen in halo wars, halo CE, and halo 2, Gavemind are formed nothing created them except...well... themselves. i believe when a flood form, weather it be a spore or a pod, once they infect enough organisms and gather enough information they begin proto-gravemind stage, as seen in Halo CE, when keyes is infected and stuck in a proto-gravemind. So therefor i don't believe that they were created as much as I'd like to believe it.
Well I'm not really suggesting that every single Gravemind would have to be compiled while being overseen or something of the like to make it into a "living AI"-like entity. Any infected Flood could mass together and create a Gravemind, and the DNA of the Flood causes the new collective "center" to exist with the relative prowess of an machine AI. The only Gravemind that wouldn't be sentient from the start would be the original, as it had to accumulate the information to break free of its restrictions while any new Graveminds would already have the knowledge.

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Posted by: PHANTOM071494
I haven't ever seen the first thread since im not on the H3 forum all that much. I will be excited to see more information added onto this theory. I am glad i decided to go to the H3 forum since this is one of the best things i have read in a while.
I have to say, I think too many people don't come to this forum because they think there are no good threads. There are, there always have been. Sometimes you just have to look deeper than others to find them.

[quote]
I guess thats true i usually just post on the flood and everyone talks about how immature everyone over here is while in reality we are about the same. This is Phantom btw im just on another account.

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I only really read the first part detailing the main bulk of the theory, so I don't know if this was already mentioned or discussed, so I apologize if I'm bringing up any old news.

I have to say, that you raise an interesting point on the topic of Pure Forms. I myself don't think that they're flood-embodyments of long-gone species. I think that they're more of a specialized adaptation of the flood to averse conditions and to overcome goals.
Take adaptive computer programs, for example. The strings of code in the computer would store the memory (just like the Gravemind), and the computer program would use its memory of past experiences to judge what did and didn't work in various situations. If certain methods to attain a goal didn't work, the computer program would "learn" that what it tried before didn't work and adapt a new behaviour to overcome the challenges it's been presented with. I think that the Pure Form is the Flood's adaptation to its obstacles.
(if anyone has ever read Prey, by Michael Crichton, which was one of his best books, it talks about the same sort of thing--->adverse adaptations from an adaptive program, which in Halo's case may be the flood pure form)

Also, one thing before I forget:
I don't think that the theory talked about this, but if it did and I missed it, I'm sorry, but how would the Gravemind retain all its memories from generation to generation?
To clarify a little further, the Gravemind that fought the Forerunners was destroyed when the Halos were fired. A new Gravemind was created during the events of Halo 2, and yet it retained all the memories and past experiences of the Gravemind from the Forerunner-Flood War. If the Gravemind is the information catalog of the flood, and the infection forms are the information retrievers, then how would the new Gravemind have the memories from the one before. The new Gravemind was compiled from infected bodies and information attained in 2552 (sorry if the date's wrong), not from 100,000 years ago, and yet it still has 100,000 year old memories from infected beings that it's not made of.
How can this be?

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Yeah, who knows... Well, most of this is based on speculation, so anything could theoretically be possible in this. Thus far, the theory is well developed and has an astounding thought process behind it. I think there's nothing like it on the Halo forums (unless you have more of these theory threads :P).

The flood pure form thing, maybe they were combat-modified versions of creatures Gravemind catalogged. Or maybe they are just spontaneous adaptations to new obstacles, it's just that Gravemind couldn't develop new Pure Forms in time, so he was just stuck with the ones he had. But, then again, it's all speculation, albeit very well thought out speculation, but speculation nonetheless. I think it could go either way.

On the topic for the Gravemind's memories, I think your latter explanation is the best. From what I've heard, there needs to be a certain amount of Flood biomass absorbed to sustain a Gravemind. When the Halos fired, most flood ended up starving and dying, except for those that the Forerunners kept in stasis, so the Gravemind would have withered from lack of biomass. When the flood was re-released, a new influx of biomass helped to sustain a new Gravemind (with an attempted construction on Alpha Halo, and a successful construction on Delta Halo). With that, Flood in stasis could have broken free (now that I think of that, it could be a possibility--> on Lockout, in the lower hallway, one of the doors to a flood stasis pod is open, and on Cold Storage, in the room w/ the pure form in a tube, theres some biomass on the ground) and be used to replenish the new Gravemind with its former self's memories.

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Posted by: Frogger1093
Yeah, who knows... Well, most of this is based on speculation, so anything could theoretically be possible in this. Thus far, the theory is well developed and has an astounding thought process behind it. I think there's nothing like it on the Halo forums (unless you have more of these theory threads :P).
I have 9 theory threads overall, 5 theories overall. Three threads are recent, one being the previous version of this theory and one being a separate theory. Out of all those theories, two were disproved and one was proved; the others are not proved or disproved. None of them are nearly as good as this.

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Posted by: Reptilian Rob
Posted by: joey1859
I also think that the flood either ARE precursor or a life form that was mechanically evolved using precursor tech. because i do believe that the flood are the final stage of evolution. because as stated in the OP, and like Ive always said, there's no inner war, crime, treason, or any opposition at all and they all work for the well being of the species. So i do believe that the flood is the final stage of evolution and that happened using the precursor tech.

But I'd have to disagree (as much as i hate to) on the Gravemind = AI thing. because look at installation 05. when the flood are first released there is no gravemind which explains their lack of organization. But as seen in halo wars, halo CE, and halo 2, Gavemind are formed nothing created them except...well... themselves. i believe when a flood form, weather it be a spore or a pod, once they infect enough organisms and gather enough information they begin proto-gravemind stage, as seen in Halo CE, when keyes is infected and stuck in a proto-gravemind. So therefor i don't believe that they were created as much as I'd like to believe it.

But as for the theory in whole, i think its AMAZING. good job AGAIN snakie =]
If the Precursors are "Flood", then what were the Forerunners?

Makes you think.

Could they be Humans that were evolved by the Precursors long ago? It would explain why the Forerunners wanted to study Humans so much. We (humans) were even deemed as special by the Librarian if I'm not mistaken.

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Posted by: Reptilian Rob
So wait, you have nine theory threads? Where was I when you posted these? Link please!
Well, they're spread out from 2006 to present, Rob. Most of them are old clunkers that I could barely call a "theory" by holding them together with some mental duct tape. They're not important, because they were all relatively horrid.



Posted by: RobbinYoBiskitz
Could they be Humans that were evolved by the Precursors long ago? It would explain why the Forerunners wanted to study Humans so much. We (humans) were even deemed as special by the Librarian if I'm not mistaken.
That's one of my particularly favorite theories by MLG Cheehwawa. He suggests that the Forerunner were a hyper-advanced offshoot of Humanity that the Precursor evolved, and that the Forerunner had no idea that Humanity still existed when they found us, that they believed that their entire race was advanced, not only a small portion of it. We were like long-lost brothers, and that's why we can use their technology, not only because we were named Reclaimers.

I don't know about anybody else, but I'd do almost anything to find some kind of situation where that genetic link between the Forerunner and Humans remains. I believe Cheeh's theory is posssible.


Posted by: Daedric Paladin
This was very well written and very interesting to say the least, Thank you for sharing i am going to save this thread for if i get bored again
...get bored? You're going to make me cry!

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Posted by: Daedric Paladin
I didnt mean it that way, just no-one was online so i came on the forum and i saw a theory so i read it and liked it, it was interesting and i liked them
No worries man, I was just kidding. Don't worry about it, I understand it's a bit of a long read. I mean, I don't even re-read the thing unless I'm incredibly bored....

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Posted by: exiled13
..........you must be one of those pro gamers or something-did you finish college at age 14? I mean this completely amazing! I couldn't have done this in an day. It would take me a week. By the way, have thought about anything about like a time paradox that would fit into that or parallel universes? When I was done reading about that theory, I began to wonder, what if the flood came from a faraway future, say the year 9999, for example. Or what if a more advanced unknown race from a parallel universe came this universe and let the flood run loose for some unkown reason.
What you fail to realize is that Snakie was a child prodigy at age three.

I hear they didn't even bother schooling him, his IQ is at least 300.